Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Discuss stem cells, adult and embryonic, and their therapeutic potential for MS here.

Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby georgegoss » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:09 pm

Although I have yet to find any research data indicating possible stem cell treatment efficacy for Alzheimer's, the following is at least encouraging for not only Parkinson's, but seems like it could perhaps have some translation to AD and MS. Encourgaing to hear Dr. Oz' treatment availability timeline estimate of less than ten years:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... EPUtU&NR=1

Related info along the same lines as previously posted by Squiffy:

http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1826
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby kaliej » Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:51 am

There are many other centers other centers available on the internet.Why don't people go for others?
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby georgegoss » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:23 pm

kaliej wrote:There are many other centers other centers available on the internet.Why don't people go for others?


Excellent question regarding this whole broad topic. I don't know the answer for people seeking unproven stem cell therapies in which most stem cell "treatment" facilities around the world are just selling snake oil and profiting from people's ignorance. But for those people that do seek this unproven stem cell treatment I would bet a human behavior study of this would be very revealing. I think it likely it has a lot to do with people's desperation in seeking a solution of their health malady, even if the treatment sought has absolutely zero evidence that it provides any curative benefit.

Not necessarily directly transferrable, but. . . . . I now realize the biggest roadblock for people seeking the "valid" theraputic approach of hematopoietic stem cell transplantation (HSCT) as the only medical treatment of the stem-cell-type having been shown to definitely provide curative benefit for MS, is the cost of the treatment as the main hurdle for most people. As a "real" treatment performed at a "real" medical (hospital) facility, HSCT is quite an expensive procedure. So its understandable most would have to jump a big hurdle to recieve it. However, I personally don't completely understand why people seek, or not the other un-proven stem cell therapies.
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby Liberation » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:54 am

georgegoss wrote:Not necessarily directly transferrable, but. . . . . I now realize the biggest roadblock for people seeking the "valid" theraputic approach of hematopoietic stem cell transplantation (HSCT) as the only medical treatment of the stem-cell-type having been shown to definitely provide curative benefit for MS, is the cost of the treatment as the main hurdle for most people. As a "real" treatment performed at a "real" medical (hospital) facility, HSCT is quite an expensive procedure. So its understandable most would have to jump a big hurdle to recieve it. However, I personally don't completely understand why people seek, or not the other un-proven stem cell therapies.



I think George, you got it right, the biggest hurdle for most people is the cost of the treatment. As for the survival rate, is it the same for MS patients as for leukemia? How much different are the procedures?

Personally, my biggest concern is my ppms status. It seems to me that neurologists and scientists do not know what is driving ppms. It seems that they only do research in those fields where they expect extra profits. Neurologists told me that currently they believe that in spms and ppms autoimmunity is not the primary culprit, eventhogh if it is there. Probably, this is the reason why they do not give any immunmodulatory drugs for ppms patients. On the other hand, it made me hopeful when I read George's post that 2/3 of ppms patients seemed to benefit from the HSCT treatment. Is there any explanation why the HSCT treatment helps some people and why not others (even with RRMS)? Is there any experience with secondary autoimmunity? Has it occured? Is tthere any long-term risk with chemotherapy applied during HSCT?

I am also wondering if there is any screening to see who has a susceptibility to infection. How about if someone has a track record of repeated urinary infections, etc.?

As for the other stem cell treatments, I agree that most of them are unscrupulously profit driven and not more than snakes oil. On the other hand, it seems to me that the US and the EU lags behind some other countries in the stem cell field as moral and political debates unnecessary stalled these kind of researches. Just as an example, autologous colony expanded MSC trials just recently started in the US and in the EU, while in other countries like in Israel or China they already accomplised many of these treatments. Iran was 3 years ahead of the US with the initiation of colony expanded MSC clinical trials.

It seems to me that some of the treatments that might be approved in 5-7 years are already available today for money (e.g. adipose derived colony expanded MSC treatment is available in Texas, Korea, etc.). Of course, it is a wild guess to choose the proper treatment without an FDA approval, but doing nothing is also risky for a pwms. It is also true that something can be beneficial, eventhough it is not FDA approved, e.g. Omega-3, vitamine D.

A European professor, who spent some time at a Chinese state sponsored hospital, was telling a journalist that Chinese think differently than we do. They do not pretend that they understand how stem cells work exactly, but they do treatments if they see it helps even only some people but do not harm anyone. ...I think we do not understand why MSC treatments might help some people and do not others.

So, maybe it is a wishful thinking, but if Dr Oz is right and a possible treatment option is there in less than ten years, then shouldn't the clinical trials of that "possible treatment" start in a few years? If that is the case then I would assume that in some countries the same procedure would be done while we are still testing them in the US or in the EU. I also do not know how the treatment of Parkinson disease can translate into the treatment of MS.
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby CVfactor » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:07 pm

Liberation wrote:Neurologists told me that currently they believe that in spms and ppms autoimmunity is not the primary culprit, eventhogh if it is there. Probably, this is the reason why they do not give any immunmodulatory drugs for ppms patients.


I often hear this a lot on this site. But lets look at a Nueron:

Image

So in RRMS the main target is the Myelen sheath (white matter) while there may be some secondary damage to the axons. The white matter damage is what shows up on MRI's as lesions.

In SPMS and PPMS the main damage is to axons (grey matter).

So, my question is that if either type of MS is not autoimune why are not the other structures of the neuron such as the cell body (soma) effected. Why is it that only specific areas of the neuron are targets?
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby NHE » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:23 pm

CVfactor wrote:So in RRMS the main target is the Myelen sheath (white matter) while there may be some secondary damage to the axons. The white matter damage is what shows up on MRI's as lesions.

In SPMS and PPMS the main damage is to axons (grey matter).

So, my question is that if either type of MS is not autoimune why are not the other structures of the neuron such as the cell body (soma) effected. Why is it that only specific areas of the neuron are targets?


For clarification...

WebMD wrote:Gray Matter: Those regions of the brain and spinal cord that are made up primarily of the cell bodies and dendrites of nerve cells rather than myelinated axons.



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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby euphoniaa » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:05 am

CVfactor wrote:
Liberation wrote:Neurologists told me that currently they believe that in spms and ppms autoimmunity is not the primary culprit, eventhogh if it is there. Probably, this is the reason why they do not give any immunmodulatory drugs for ppms patients.


I often hear this a lot on this site. But lets look at a Nueron:

Image

So in RRMS the main target is the Myelen sheath (white matter) while there may be some secondary damage to the axons. The white matter damage is what shows up on MRI's as lesions.

In SPMS and PPMS the main damage is to axons (grey matter).

So, my question is that if either type of MS is not autoimune why are not the other structures of the neuron such as the cell body (soma) effected. Why is it that only specific areas of the neuron are targets?

Hi CV Factor,
Here's one more clarification. Your diagram appears to be of the peripheral nerves and not nerves of the central nervous system. I post about this all the time, because I've been diagnosed with both MS and HNPP, a hereditary peripheral neuropathy. Schwann cells are for the PNS and not the CNS (those are oligodendrocytes).

I'll post a bit of info from other threads, but if it's not clear, I can add more, because I write about PNS vs CNS all the time.

Glial cells thread from Squiffy:
general-discussion-f1/topic9065.html?hilit=schwann
And the MSRC article link in that thread:
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseact ... ageid=1398
Explanation about glial cells from that article:

Glial cells serve nerve cells by insulating them with layers of fats and proteins called myelin. Myelin coatings are necessary for nerve signals to be transmitted normally; when the sheaths are lost, disorders involving impairment in sensation, movement and cognition such as multiple sclerosis or amyotrophic lateral sclerosis develop. Glial cells named oligodendrocytes produce myelin around nerves of the central nervous system, while those named Schwann cells make myelin that insulates peripheral nerves.


And for the sake of explaining why I pay so much attention to these cells, here's a quote from one of the threads where I explained the difference in my case.

The thread:
general-discussion-f1/topic7757.html?hilit=schwann
A quote from me on that thread:
I'm still not sure if there's any sort of connection between MS & HNPP, although my family's situation raises intriguing questions.

HNPP means that MY peripheral nerves are unable to handle physical stress to them due to a missing myelin gene. Some other "named" peripheral neuropathies, such as CIDP, sound more like inflammation caused by other reasons, such as viruses, etc.

Also, just for the sake of background information in this discussion, I should have mentioned that the myelin in the CNS (brain & spinal cord) is made up of oligodendrocytes, whereas the myelin covering of the peripheral nerves (all other nerves in the body) is from Schwann cells instead.

So, my LP shows that I have both O-bands in my spinal fluid (plus whatever else they look for) and the extensive round of EMGs they gave me (I call it The Day of the Long Needles ) show I have carpal tunnel in both wrists & both elbows (at least). That's what puts the PP (Pressure Palsies) into HNPP. (I also have a brain that's Chock Full O' MS-specific Lesions, but who's counting at this point?)

My cousin with MS has had 2 unsuccessful carpal tunnel surgeries (possible HNPP), although my dad had a recent MRI of his brain showing only that he had, well, a "normal" 87-year-old brain. My dad, cousin, and I have footdrop, but my neuros shrug that there's no way to figure out whether my footdrop & hand tremors are due to MS or HNPP or both.

Also, FYI - both the "named" PNs like CIDP & HNPP and also the generic, unnamed PN condition can show remarkably similar symptoms to MS. Just check out the generic PN pages at Mayo: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/periph ... hy/DS00131

The term "peripheral neuropathy" in general just refers to a group of symptoms within the PNS, which includes the sensory nerves, muscles, and organs, affecting things like bowel & bladder issues as well. PN can be the result of genetics (me), diseases, vitamin deficiencies, etc., which is why I always feel obligated to remind undx'd sufferers (who don't test as well as I do ) of the possibilities.

Another note: HNPP is a malfunction of the same gene (missing part) as CMT, Charcot-Marie-Tooth (doubled gene), a much more common hereditary neuropathy. They're often mentioned together when you do research.


Now, wasn't it nice to have a short break from discussing only stem cells? :smile: Carry on.
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby CVfactor » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:33 am

I guess my point is that if one were to pursue MSC cell transplantation (which I don't believe is a valid treatment at this point in time) to repair existing damage caused by MS, you must be certain that the disease progression is stopped first.

Otherwise any benefit you would hope to see from the MSC cell transplantation would be damaged again by future disease progression.

I think there is clearly a misunderstanding of what HSCT cell transplantation is (stopping of disease progression) and MSC cell transplantation (damage repair).
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby Liberation » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:34 am

CVfactor wrote:I guess my point is that if one were to pursue MSC cell transplantation (which I don't believe is a valid treatment at this point in time) to repair existing damage caused by MS, you must be certain that the disease progression is stopped first.

Otherwise any benefit you would hope to see from the MSC cell transplantation would be damaged again by future disease progression.

I think there is clearly a misunderstanding of what HSCT cell transplantation is (stopping of disease progression) and MSC cell transplantation (damage repair).


As far as I know MSC treatment is both for the suppression or modification of autoimmunity and for damage repair. As I previously posted clinical trials have been already done for MSC abroad (e.g. Iran) and the treatment is done in different countries. The problem is that the results are not convincing. Without HSCT the MSC therapy should be repeated to sustain results, that is true.
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby CVfactor » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:25 pm

NHE wrote:For clarification...

WebMD wrote:Gray Matter: Those regions of the brain and spinal cord that are made up primarily of the cell bodies and dendrites of nerve cells rather than myelinated axons.



NHE


To be clearer, from John Hopkins Advanced Studies in Medicine:
http://www.jhasin.com/files/articlefiles/pdf/ASM_9_2_p37_41.pdf

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a chronic disease that is characterized by central nervous system (CNS) inflammation, demyelination, and neurodegeneration. Although the pathophysiology of MS is not completely understood, it is clear that much of the underlying disease process is clinically silent and continues even when patients are not experiencing symptoms. Most patients initially present with relapsing/remitting MS, in which acute disease episodes are separated by a return to normal or near-normal neurologic function. Eventually, most patients transition to secondary progressive MS, which is defined by the gradual accumulation of irreversible neurologic impairment. A consensus has recently begun to emerge that the long-term progressive disability in patients with MS is due to irreversible neurodegeneration, and that inflammation is less prominent in the later stage of the disorder. MS lesions exhibit extensive axonal transection and degeneration, and may involve both gray matter and white matter. Demyelination alone does not appear to cause axonal injury, and most axons survive transitory demyelination. However, axons that are chronically demyelinated are at substantial risk of degeneration. This may reflect the loss of important nerve growth factors that are produced by surrounding oligodendrocytes and that are essential for axonal survival. The gradualaccumulation of axonal injury probably contributes to the long-term atrophy of the CNS that is often observed in patients with chronic MS, and to the eventual progression of neurologic impairment. Early initiation of disease-modifying therapy may therefore help to slow long-term neurodegeneration and disease progression in patients with MS. (Adv Stud Med. 2009;9(2):37-41)
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Re: Stem Cell Rejuvenation Center in Phoenix Arizona

Postby jeske » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:46 pm

I have recently been to this clinic for treatment for my heart. Also for other problems such as bad hip and knee. They were very attentive to my concerns and my comfort. The treatment took about 5 hours or so and I am very happy with the way it was done. I cannot tell you about results yet because it has only been a week. I will stay on the diet and the vitamin cocktail they made for me. They were very adamant that to go back to what I was doing before would be just wasting my time there. Also, for those who say this is not a vialble treatment, maybe they are right. I will not know until I wait and see for awhile. As for the cost, it did play a role in my decision but they never promised anything and they were willing to return my money if I decided not to have the treatment after the consultation. I do not know about ms other than I have a friend with it. Nasty, nasty disease. willy
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