Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:23 pm

i think the b100 complex is enough, especially if you make sure your zinc intake is really good, and that you don't eat too much stuff that depletes zinc (eg wheat, sugar, dairy, alcohol)

Effect of Zinc Supplementation on Serum Homocysteine in Type 2 Diabetic Patients with Microalbuminuria
http://www.soc-bdr.org/rds/archive/6/1_ ... ex_en.html
"Zinc supplementation reduced serum homocysteine and increased vitamin B12 and folate concentrations in type 2 diabetic patients with microalbuminuria."
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Thank you Jimmylegs, I think your advice to split them up and take the B vitimins in the morning is a good idea. I never thought about it before but it makes sence to do it that way.

You said before my "hemoglobin is borderline. klenner protocol for ms (an oldie from the 1970s, but containing very useful tidbits) specifies minimum hemoglobin level of 13."

Also you mentioned Uric acid. How would I go about adjusting those?

As far as the Glucose test that Lyndacarol mentioned and the few tests that you mentioned I might ask my neurologist for them, if not Ill probably go to my GP and ask them to do it. I don’t want to have my neurologist get annoyed with me trying to tell him what to do. I feel like they are already abandoning me without really knowing what is going on with me. I’m just surprised that not one of the three doctors that looked at my blood work said, you know your D3 level is borderline low. Not to mention that blood was taken one month after my symptoms, so my levels might have been lower when this all started.
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:27 pm

no probs :)

for hemoglobin you need adequate iron for one thing. so the serum ferritin test i mentioned would be nice info to have. here's a study on the correlation btw serum ferritin and hemoglobin (in pregnancy though, but still)

Hemoglobin and red cell indices correlated with serum ferritin concentration in late pregnancy
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10074993
"Serum ferritin concentration correlated significantly with hemoglobin ... Serum ferritin concentration at the early third trimester correlated best with hemoglobin level. If a hemoglobin level of 11 g/dL or below (25% of all patients) was used as the cutoff, 64% of women who needed iron therapy were identified."

wonder what the percent would have been if they used 13 as their cutoff! all of them??

as for uric acid, don't worry about it, just get the follow-up test done, to keep an eye on it. the level should come up on its own as you optimize your zinc level.

re asking for tests, consider approaching the neuro only for followup on the ones we've discussed here, that you already have on your list. perhaps consider the GP for any additional ones. whatever you think will get you the best chance of success.

what are we up to then.. ferritin, magnesium, and zinc for now, then re-jig the supplements, wait a while, then get follow-up testing including uric acid, hemoglobin, vit d3, ferritin, magnesium, zinc, and anything else you care to study. check out the results, decide if the supplement regimen needs any tweaking, rinse and repeat ;)
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby lyndacarol » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:08 pm

Jewels70 wrote:...
As far as the Glucose test that Lyndacarol mentioned and the few tests that you mentioned I might ask my neurologist for them, if not Ill probably go to my GP and ask them to do it. I don’t want to have my neurologist get annoyed with me trying to tell him what to do. I feel like they are already abandoning me without really knowing what is going on with me.


A glucose test and an insulin test are TWO DIFFERENT tests. Insulin is a hormone produced in the pancreas. I suggest asking your GP for "a fasting blood insulin test." For this test a vial of blood will be drawn from your arm in the lab; the test must be performed soon after the blood is drawn (or the insulin in the sample will degrade and the test will not be accurate). If the insulin test cannot be performed soon, the blood sample must be frozen. Your ideal result will be 3 UU/ML or lower.

A glucose (blood sugar) test is the finger prick test done by diabetics several times per day. It is measured by a glucose meter.
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:17 pm

Thank you for the clarificaiton Lyndacarol. I will be sure to write it down so I don't ask for the wrong test. Im very happy to have found this site, it seems there are so many helpful people here and so much informaion to take in.

:-D
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:54 am

Here's my test results from 7-21-12:

2hr Gluecose TT.
Fasting 85 range 74-106 mg/dL
1hour Glu 146 <140 mg/dL
2 hour Glu 150 range <140 mg/dL


(edit to update 8/1/12) My Doctor called me today and says he is reffering me to an endocronoligts. Says my 2 hr. test is impared.



Parathyroid hormone (intact) 42 Range 15-65 pg/mL
Calcium 8.8 Range 8.2-10.4 mg/dL

Phosphorous 3.4 Range 2.7-4.5 mg/dL

Magnesium 2.1 range 1.7-2.6 mg/dL

Thyroid stimulating hormone 1.34 Range 0.27-4.2

Zinc 97 Range 60-130

Thats all I have for now.

Ive taken a bath in the epson salt every other day (3 times so far ) for at least 15 minutes and probably longer. My twitching has slowed down a lot. I can go almost all day now and not really any! I noticed after day two of the bath I wasn't getting as many.


I'm going to the GP today. I'm hoping he doesn't see me as crazy when I ask him for more bold tests. Hopfully he will order them.


Jimmylegs- If you have any suggestions of the best way to ask him for these tests please let me know, he will probably wonder why I want them and I'm afraid he will say they are not needed. Im going back now to review your and llyndacarols suggested tests and write them down so I don't forget. My appointment is in 8 hours. Let me know what you think. Also do you think it's too soon to recheck my Vitimin D? Thank you.


I'm editing to ask. There is no special zinc or magnesium tests right? So I need to ask for ferritin and the fasting blood insulin tests and that's it? Hopefully you'll see this before I go today. Thank you again!
Last edited by Jewels70 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:28 am

hey there! lab results - this is news you can use! your zinc is down at 14.9 umol/L, you could stand to get it up to 18 umol/L (that would be 118). as for the magnesium 2.10, that level is a bit low, 0.85 mmol/L when you want to be in this range: 0.90-1.10 mmol/L (2.19 - 2.67 mmol/L). magnesium's one where a very small level change can make a really large difference. as for your calcium, in some of the research i've seen, the reference range was given as 8.7-10.1 mg/dL, so by that standard you're cutting it pretty fine. once your zinc levels are up you should see a few things normalize, and calcium might be one of them (i am not as up on calcium as i am on other things).

great to hear your twitching is lessened! fantastic news :)

as for the doc. say you've seen a lot of research indicating that ms patients have levels of various nutrients that are in the lower end of the normal range compared to healthy controls. you want to make sure your levels match those seen in healthy controls. that you've already taken some measures, seen positive results, and want to make sure you're on the right track.

i can't advise re how to ask for insulin tests, that's not something i've looked into myself, except as related to underlying nutrient levels. hope that helps! gotta run, ttfn
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:25 pm

My neurologist called me today, he said my 2 hour glucose test was impared. He is referring me to and endocrenologist. I don't know if this has anything to do with my symptoms, I dont know exactly what this means is wrong with me, I had gone to the hopsital and picked up my test results and didnt pay much attention to the 2 hour test, but its a little higher than it should be. I need to research the possibilitys, I know diabiets can cause nerve damage, but I cant understand this. To be considered dibetic you need it to come back over 200. Any thoughts?
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:30 pm

http://www.joslin.org/info/diagnosing_i ... e_IGT.html

People with IGT have blood glucose levels that are higher than normal but not high enough to say they have diabetes. This condition is diagnosed using the oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT). After a fast of 8 to12 hours, a person's blood glucose is measured before and 2 hours after drinking a glucose-containing solution.
■In normal glucose tolerance, blood glucose rises no higher than 140 mg/dl 2 hours after the drink.
■In impaired glucose tolerance (IGT), the 2-hour blood glucose is between 140 and 199 mg/dl.
■If the 2-hour blood glucose rises to 200 mg/dl or above, a person has diabetes.

do you have your 2-hour result handy?
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:15 pm

It's above. I colored it red.
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:13 pm

sorry my bad. ok so yea. will have a search around, see what if anything i can come up with :)
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby Jewels70 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:35 pm

By the way, i couldnt get my GP to give me the insulin test, he looked at my fasting blood work and said no you dont have a problem with your glucose, you are not over weight and your still young, we dont need that test! He didnt know I had the neuro order the OGTT.

Thank you for looking into this, Ive been trying to reseach it a little myself, Ive found so far that a small percentage of people with prediabeties can have alot of the sx ive been having. I just dont know if they can have them all. I also dont know if it could be predibeties or somthing esle because the fasting test is normal. Seems there are other things that can cause your levels to be off. I so can't wait to get that appointment. In the mean time I had made an appointment for next wednesday with a movement disorder specialist near Boston. I am terrified that i will lose my arms with the shakiness I develped. Its in my legs too but stems from a muslce in my torso, dont know which ones. Ill check back in the morning I need to get to sleep. Im hoping I can sleep better knowing at least there is somthing that might lead to an explanation (otherwise I need my new friend Benedryl). Good night!
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:43 pm

Effect of trivalent chromium on glucose tolerance
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9566901119
Trivalent chromium, an essential trace element for maintenance of normal glucosetolerance in the rat, was administered to diabetics and subjects with normal glucose utilization. Oral supplementation with 150 to 1000 μg. of chromium (III) per day for periods of 15 to 120 days was associated with an improved glucosetolerance in 3 out of 6 diabetics. Short term administration of the element was ineffective. Normal glucosetolerance was not influenced. It is suggested that in the human, as in the rat, chromium is required for optimal glucose utilization.


Chromium - blood test
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003359.htm
Chromium is a mineral that affects insulin, carbohydrate, fat, and protein levels in the body. This article discusses the test to check the amount of chromium in your blood. Serum chromium levels normally range from less than 0.05 up to 0.5 micrograms/milliliter (mcg/mL). Normal value ranges may vary slightly among different laboratories.


Chromium, selenium, and other trace element intakes of a selected sample of Canadian premenopausal women
http://www.springerlink.com/content/4091v366mw2312h8/
Daily Cr, Se, Ag, Cs, Rb, Sb, and Sc intakes of 84 Canadian women aged 30.3±6.1 yr (mean±SD) living in a University community and consuming self-selected diets were determined by analyses of 1-d food composites collected by the subjects. Aliquots of the homogenized food composites were freeze-dried and then analyzed by instrumental neutron activation procedures following irradiation for 72h. In all cases, trace element concentrations in the food composites were non-Gaussian. Median daily intakes were: Cr, 47 μg; Se, 74 μg; Ag, 7.1 μg; Cs, 4.4 μg; Rb, 1.5 mg; Sb 2.0 μg; and Sc, 0.38 μg. Sixty percent and 24% [b]of the subjects received daily Cr[/b] and Se intakes, respectively, below the US Food and Nutrition Board safe and adequate range. High Cr density diets were associated with a significantly higher consumption of cheese and dry legumes and nuts (p<0.05). In the high Se density diets, intakes of grain products and breakfast cereals were significantly higher (p<0.05), and intakes of potatoes, table fats, total fat, saturated fat, and oleic acid were significantly lower (p<0.05) compared to the low Se density diets. The low daily Cr intakes evident in this study may be cause for concern in view of the increasing evidence that women may be at greater risk for deficiency of Cr than men because of Cr depletion during pregnancy.


Role of chromium supplementation in Indians with type 2 diabetes mellitus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12550067
Abstract
Type 2 diabetes mellitus is a complex metabolic disorder with adverse cardiovascular risk. The role of micronutrients has not yet been well clarified in this condition, especially in India. THE OBJECTIVES OF THIS STUDY WERE TO: (1) evaluate chromium status in Indian subjects with type 2 diabetes mellitus, (2) assess the effect of chromium picolinate (200 &mgr;g trivalent chromium twice daily) administration on glycaemic control and lipid profile in these subjects and (3) comment on the possible mechanism of any beneficial effect noted above. Fifty subjects were studied in a double blind, placebo-controlled, crossover fashion, with each treatment arm (chromium/placebo) lasting 12 weeks and 4 weeks' wash-off period in between. 50 healthy age- and sex-matched volunteers served as controls. Serum chromium level appeared to be higher in the general population in our country compared to western countries (36.5-59.5 nmol/L as compared to 2.3-40.3 nmol/L) However, the local diabetics were found to have a lower serum chromium level than the healthy controls (32.3 nmol/L against 44.7 nmol/L; p < 0.0001) and a mean increase of 3.5 nmol/L was noted after 12 weeks of chromium supplementation that was, expectedly, not seen in the placebo phase (p < 0.0001). Significant improvement in glycaemic control was noted in the chromium-treated group (DeltaFasting serum glucose = 0.44 mmol/L, p < 0.001; DeltaPost-prandial serum glucose = 1.97 mmol/L, p < 0.001; Deltaglycated hemoglobin = 0.01; p = 0.04, in comparison to placebo) This was accompanied by a significant greater fall in fasting serum insulin in the chromium-treated group, p < 0.05. The change in lipid parameters (total serum cholesterol, high density lipoprotein cholesterol, low density lipoprotein cholesterol and triglycerides) did not show significant difference between the chromium and placebo groups. Clinically significant hematological, renal or hepatic toxicity were excluded by routine hemogram, serum urea, creatinine, alanine amino transferase (ALT) and alkaline phosphatase estimations. In conclusion, chromium supplementation seems to improve glycaemic control in type 2 diabetic patients, which appears to be due to an increase in insulin action rather than stimulation of insulin secretion.


i have not yet located any studies on chromium in ms but anyway, this all looks pretty interesting. might be worth taking a stab at evaluating your dietary chromium intake, for starters.
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby want2bike » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:12 am

Not sure what type of diet you are following but diet is the key to your health. If you eat the correct diet your body will determine which of the vitamins and minerals it needs. The vitamins and minerals in these supplements are not the same as what we get from our food. Try a diet of raw fruits and vegetables and let your body decide which vitamins and minerals it needs. They do put unhealthy things in these supplements.

The mercury test will only show mercury in your blood if you have had a recent exposure. Mercury goes to the different organs in your body and cause the problems with the nervous system. If you have amalgam fillings you might want to see a mercury free dentist who has the instrument to check the mercury level in your mouth. If you have a lot of root canals that could be the problem. If you have too many vaccinations that could be the problem. If you are living in a highly industrialize area that could be the problem.

http://www.livingpaleo.com/probioticsgo ... ia-part-2/

http://www.organicconsumers.org/organic ... 112105.cfm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOhcUvHO ... ure=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0WWXzJu ... re=related
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Re: Please tell me what you think about my symptoms

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:59 am

going back to some of your earlier back story..

I'm a sugar holic. I'm not over weight, lucky my body metabolizes what I eat. But I don't always make good choices... I was exercising, P90x or insanity workouts, for the last few years. Not religiously but I've done the whole 90 days maybe missing two days. Then I took a break. Got sick, with shingles, that that was about 2 1/2 years ago... ran my body down with weekend yard work, I'm talking a good 6 hrs worth both days on The weekends, lifing and moving heavy rocks draging tarps full of leaves and limbs into the woods which is down hill so coming up was a work out for my legs and I was doing insanity workout m-f. Its a lot more fast pace aerobics than P90x very little recovery between sets and exhausting. I wanted somthing different. My friend told me I might want to watch out becase I wasn't giving my body a break.

with all that in mind, some thoughts on mal(or mis-)nourishment and impacts on glucose tolerance:

Human Zinc Deficiency, Endocrine Manifestations and Response to Treatment
http://www.ajcn.org/content/20/5/422.full.pdf

says this:
Glucose tolerance was measured (Table iv) after 7-10 days of hospital diet. The mean (± SD) of 35 fasting levels in 22 patients was 81 ± 16 ml/100 ml... In general, the oral tests suggested delayed absorption, and iv tests were consistent with this interpretation. Similar oral tests have been reported in zinc-deficient rats (41) and severely malnourished humans (42).

citation 42:
THE STARVATION STATE AND FUNCTIONAL HYPOPITUITARISM
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.asp ... eid=295880
The tendency of severe states of nutritional deficiency to alter the function of various endocrine glands has been observed in both human beings and experimental animals... an endocrine survey was performed on five selected patients with unusually severe starvation states, four of whom were comparatively young adults...
i only include this because i wanted to link up to what the authors were citing above, but i include this bit of abstract because i think it's interesting that this study is about starvation conditions.

interestingly (i think i may have touched on mineral imbalances and sugar cravings already, sorry for the duplication if that's the case) chromium, magnesium, vanadium and zinc are all implicated in this article:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/49601 ... eficiency/
A deficiency in trace minerals involved with glucose metabolism and insulin production may cause you to crave sugar. Deficiencies of these trace minerals, including chromium, vanadium, magnesium and zinc, are often caused by the lack of mineral-containing foods in your diet.

not sure if i'm repeating myself again with this one, but this is an article i sent to a friend of mine who had worked herself into ill health including amenorrhea and sepsis

Energy and nutrient status of amenorrheic athletes participating in a diet and exercise training intervention program.
http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/1999 ... 172B9B7A99
This study presents the results of a diet and exercise training intervention programme, designed to reverse athletic amenorrhoea, on improving energy balance and nutritional status in 4 amenorrhoeic athletes. The 20-week programme provided a daily sport nutrition supplement and 1 day of rest/week. The intervention improved self-reported energy intake (EI) and balance in all participants. The programme increased protein intakes for the 3 athletes with a protein deficit to within the recommended levels for active individuals. Micronutrient intakes increased, as did serum concentrations of vitamin B12, folate, zinc, iron, and ferritin. These results indicate that some amenorrhoeic athletes have poor nutritional status due to restricted EIs and poor food selections. A sport nutrition supplement may improve energy balance and nutritional status in active amenorrhoeic women.
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