Jimmylegs help please.....

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:33 pm

I got some more blood tests done and have some more results and was hoping you could help....

Vitamin D is now at 69 (last test was 39). I'm taking 2000iu daily.

Vitamin B12 is at 283.

Iron is at 7 (which is apparently quite low).

What do these levels mean in the context of any of the neurological symptoms I am having (listed in my other post, rather than relisting them all here)?
undiagnosed-f54/topic24267.html

Thanks a million

C
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:47 am

I should add too that transferrin sat was 10.

Ta
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:53 am

hey there! so to clarify, what units go with those results (I know the vit d was nmol/L, but the others)? it was serum iron that was 7? or serum ferritin?
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:59 am

Ferritin was 66 ug/L
Hello!!!

Iron 7 umol/L

Transferrin 2.7 g/L

Transferrin Sat 10 %

Does that help??
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:20 am

yep thx!
ok good to know. all right did they suggest you consider this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemia_of_chronic_disease

related studies:
IL-6 mediates hypoferremia of inflammation by inducing the synthesis of the iron regulatory hormone hepcidin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC398432/

if it's indicative of chronic inflammation related to IL-6, then taking steps to optimize nutrition should help.

related study:
Zinc decreases C-reactive protein, lipid peroxidation, and inflammatory cytokines in elderly subjects: a potential implication of zinc as an atheroprotective agent (2010)
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/91/6/1634.short
"After 6 mo of supplementation, the intake of zinc, compared with intake of placebo, increased the concentrations of plasma zinc and decreased the concentrations of plasma high-sensitivity C-reactive protein (hsCRP), interleukin (IL)-6 ..."

basically that looks like the scenario in which zinc would help elevate iron, rather than driving it down due to competition. might be worth investigating zinc status too.
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:24 am

also did you ever find the magnesium glycinate? since you are taking more d3 now (good work on those levels so far!) and have so many potentially mag-linked symptoms, I really hope you've had some luck in that dept!
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:29 am

with b12, aim for 500pmol/L. zinc helps with b12 levels as well.
zinc really bumped up my vit d3 absorption/retention as well, for that matter.

have you read through this whole thing yet? www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:44 am

Thanks so much for your very detailed response!!!

I read through your regimen post. Um. Wow. That is pretty full on. Hugely informative too.

Now I haven't had my zinc levels tested at all. Nor have I Had magnesium levels tested.

As regards the B12, what is the best way to bring that up to 500 odd?

And is 2000iu daily sufficient with regards to the Vitamin D or do you think that requires increasing? I got 39 on the 20/12/13 and since taking (initially 1000iu for a month) and then 2000iu for the next few months, it is 69. My doctor wants it to be at least over 75. Maybe up to 3000iu?

Can you suggest any other things I can do actively right now with regards to the iron levels?

I have not managed to find magnesium glycinate. I am starting to think it is a unicorn lol.

I might have to buy online.

I have other blood test results here but not sure what you are able to take from what, if that makes sense.

Sugars are all good. In good range.

No idea how to interpret the FBE but all are within the ranges specified.

Calcium is 2.4 mmol/L, Cor. Calcium 2.26 mmol/L

I'm starting to learn….but need a lot of help!!!

Still feeling as though I Have been hit by a bus too. The last 6 months have seen a massive decline.
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:49 am

hi again :)
if you can organize a serum zinc and serum magnesium test at some point, that would be good info to have (of course you need your own copy of results so that you don't fall prey to misinterpretation)
with b12, here's a decent list of healthy food sources
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
ignore the percent daily value requirement. those numbers are based on preventing deficiency (and a VERY poorly defined deficiency at that), not achieving health. you could easily go for say 5-10 mcg per day from food. a food guide would say minimum 2mcg. (ppl often take 1000mcg, 2000mcg or even more in supplement form).

the issue with supplement forms is the potential for lack of cofactors. since zinc helps with b12 absorption/utilization, food sources that are also rich in zinc would be smart choices. lamb looks like a good option for b12 and zinc together.

here's a handy tool for comparing various nutrient levels in different foods http://www.healthaliciousness.com/nutri ... ompare.php

as for the vit d3. I'd say if you address zinc you'll see increased absorption of d3 and as well as the b12. also, you don't have the magnesium situation taken care of yet. so, stick with 2000IU per day for now and if you do find some mag, then you could think about increasing the daily amount. ordering on line might be the quickest solution.

magnesium foods (aim for 600mg per day ... 400mg is used to calculate DV% but again that is an absolute minimum associated with preventing deficiency using a very poorly defined normal range)http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=75#foodchart

glad the sugars are all good!

hope you feel better soon :)
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:29 am

Thanks so much for all that information. Immensely helpful!! I particularly like the comparison of nutritional values chart. Brilliant!!!

I have been doing quite a bit of reading to see if specific foods inhibit the absorption of iron and have read that coffee can do so by up to 60%. I drink a lot of coffee. Might have to cut down there. Eggs too apparently, by up to 28% per boiled egg. Amazing.

You know I have never really delved into all this before but now, due to necessity, I am, and it is quite amazing.

I am though quite astounded that anyone could be able to get 100% RDI of all the requisite vitamins and minerals purely from diet. It would take an amazing amount of calculation to work all that out, and get the right foods and whatnot. Perfect world we wouldn't have to supplement, but at this stage it seems as though in a few months' time I'll rattle from the number of pills!!!! Probably isn't that bad, but still, I just don't see how it is possible to get all those vitamins and minerals in one day from food without exceeding the calorie recommendation.

With regards to the magnesium, no I haven't found the glycinate yet, but what is your view on magnesium oil??

Will ask to have serum zinc and serum magnesium done next time I'm in for tests. They always give me copies of everything too which is brilliant. :)

Thanks again for all your help.
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:06 am

hi no problem :D

sorry i didn't say much about iron before - it was because of the possible anemia of chronic disease I think. I wouldn't focus too intently on iron, when the ferritin level is already decent. worth investigating, but perhaps not something to throw a supplement at just now.

but as to your comment about interference with iron, excess calcium can inhibit iron absorption as well, and gluten is a biggie for iron depletion too (which is why flour tends to be fortified).

when taken as supplements, zinc and iron compete so if you take one, it can affect the other. if you choose foods that are rich in both iron and zinc, you don't get the competition effect.

eating foods high in vitamin C can improve iron absorption. eg red pepper, strawberries, broccoli.

when I eat eggs, they are normally stuffed with wilted spinach and sautéed red pepper. I have NO trouble with iron and I eat about 6-8 eggs per week.

I'm a coffee drinker too, one a day week days, maybe two a day on weekends.

I think it's all amazing too :D and so glad the interweb exists to help find all the excellent info available out there.

hitting the rdi's is definitely no joke. around the world, conventional agriculture has really depleted soil nutrition, and all they generally put back is n, p, and k. in some places they do recognize the need to do so and fertilize with zinc. but I don't believe it's by any means standard practice. crazy thing i found out, when wheat is low in zinc it ends up with a higher gliadin to glutenin ratio which in turn makes it more likely to aggravate people with gluten sensitivity. meanwhile high soil phosphorus binds with toxic cadmium and somehow, when absorbed into produce, that p-cd combination masks plant magnesium deficiency. so the producer has a product that's cosmetically fine, but potentially missing what you're actually eating it for, and adding cadmium (which blocks zinc!) into your system instead. moral of the story, choose organic when you can, and grow your own food when you can. conventional grocery produce might look bigger and cost less, but you could probably hit daily targets sooner, with less food volume, when choosing organic/homegrown.

overall with rdis it can help to go for nutrient density - there are particular foods that really pack a punch and i like to make sure those are on the weekly shopping list. then mix it up for the rest.

once you've gotten your head around the RDIs a bit, you can also look at the idea of inflammation factors - those are fun ;) very useful info to have on board as well. but you don't have to do it all at once. big learning curve.

in general, I'd say don't get *too* hung up on pills until you have the food part organized, and the mag glycinate on hand to balance your d3 supplement. if you want to add anything beyond the vit d3 and the mag, consider investing in a high quality multivitamin/multimineral.

as for mag glycinate, you can probably find some online at iherb.com.au or some other net vendor. and failing that sure try magnesium oil - it's not oil just mag salts mixed with water. if you order mag chloride flakes you can just make your own. I have tried it a couple times now but I don't think it does much for me - I've been working hard on my mag status for years though. probably the worse off you are the better it helps.

if you end up getting tests and don't like the look of your zinc numbers, look up solaray copper zinc on iherb.com.au they should have it. (the copper zinc balancing act is key as well, and not all zinc supplements bother with copper).
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby christobelle » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:14 am

LOL I don't even know what my zinc numbers should be!!!!!

This is the thing - we trust blindly those who are trained to treat us. Yet we never question….

Unless we get the printouts…. or if we have some of this radical stuff happen to us that makes us wonder what the actual hell is going on…. That's a bit of a worry isn't it…..

Ok I must go to bed. I will re read this all tomorrow at a decent hour.

Once again many thanks jimmy legs. A fountain of information you are :)
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Re: Jimmylegs help please.....

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:14 am

no worries!

you should be able to find zinc targets in the big regimen summary post. I think the section header is 'serum targets' and there's a list which includes zinc.

yeah it's a bit of a travesty. imagine if education systems bothered to work us all up through this info incrementally at school, rather than having to take the emergency crash course on your own *after* the approach is no longer a truly preventative measure. think how informed docs could be before they got anywhere near med school!!

nite nite, sleep well ttfn :D
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