Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:50 pm

First post. Hi everybody! I'm a 31 y/o female who lives in the deep south. 5'3" 135 lbs. Other than tubes in the ears, no previous medical hx. sister with Fibromyalgia, Rheumatoid Arthritis. Nephew with Lennox Gasteaut (severe epileptic disorder), and another nephew with petit mal seizures.

In 2006, I went to the doctors because it sounded like my ear was having air blasted through it. While there, they noticed my heart rate was 125 and they did an EKG on me. They noted I had A-Fib. While following up with the ear issue, they found a tube that was surgically placed in my ear 15 years prior. I thought nothing of it, but I will note that this was the first time I've felt a tingling feeling in the right thoracic region of my spine. This eventually went away and didn't think anything of it.

In 2009, the tingling in the thoracic region came back. It was a bit more intense, and painful. They started becoming accompanied by random shocks throughout my body. These shocks, did not occur anywhere in particular. One very strange symptom that sticks out to this day was I could rub my right elbow (the side they draw blood on) and hear the vibrations in my left ear. I'd also experience some tremors and general clumsiness, but nothing severe. These symptoms eventually went away after roughly 6 months.

This past September, the thoracic tingling came back. It was accompanied by a strange tingling sensation originating on the pinky side of my right fingers, and moving up my arm, diminishing in severity until it reached roughly my tricep area. The same sensation runs up the right foot as well. Well, eventually I have started experiencing slight dull pain in random spots of my body (it feels like a tooth ache but it's in random spots of my extremities, bilateral). Also, I will have random shock sensations (feels about half as bad as being shocked by a telephone line if anybody has ever experienced that) anywhere ranging from the bottom of my feet to even inside my teeth. Lastly, my bladder decided it doesn't want to give me much warning before releasing anything that it's holding.

In November, my resting pulse decided to shoot up to 188. I was admitted to ICU, where I spoke with a doctor about these neurological symptoms, and he mentioned the possibility of MS, but believed it to be low Magnesium as I was borderline low. They did ultrasounds of my heart and they said my heart was in wonderful shape, and blood tests didn't show anything to be wrong with that side of my health. The cardiologist, by the way, kind of scoffed at the idea of it being MS, but as he put it he "only cares about the ticker". The ICU doctor seemed to believe I have Wolff Parkinson White, but the Cardiologist disagreed. However, both agreed that it is a neurological issue, as my labs indicated no infection nor stroke, with a perfectly well functioning heart and normal BP.

I've been taking Mg supplements ever since.

Anyways, my symptoms have been progressing. Now the dull aches are full blown excruciating. I'd give them at least an 8 when they're at their worst, I literally keel over in pain and scream at times. The pain tends to hit very suddenly, last 2-5 seconds, and go away just as quickly as it came, sometimes going to another region and doing the same thing (sometimes it continues to bounce over and over). Some days I have to concentrate to do menial things with my hands, and some days I don't trust myself handling sharp objects because of the tremors. My speech can be mildly slurred at times, but snap back to normal in seconds. Some days it's hard to even get out of bed because my legs don't want to work right, and I'll stumble everywhere. There are days where I'm lucky if I even make it to the toilet before my bladder spills out (especially if I'm washing dishes or brushing my teeth). Sometimes I will double click the mouse when I don't mean to, or even click the right button when I click the left one, or push the button way too hard. I noticed one symptom where I tried to open a drawer, and my arm pulled back before my fingers could wrap around the handle (right hand). Shocking sensations up my right arm and leg are common, more often in my arm... and feel severe enough at times for me to worry if I'm going to lose function in my arm. One morning I woke up and paralysis was so bad (upper bilateral), it literally took me 3 minutes to reach over to my phone on my nightstand 1 foot away (if that) and turn the alarm off. That eventually went away when I fell back asleep and woke up (it was on Mardi Gras I believe, which we are off of work on that day here in New Orleans).

I've since seen a nurse practitioner in the same clinic that the ICU doctor practices in, and she seems to think it's Fibromyalgia (which I whole heartedly do not agree with). She prescribed Tramadol and had a lab workup done to check for RA, autoimmunity (such as lupus), inflammation, thyroid, and B12. The Tramadol helps about 80% of the time, but the other 20% I may as well breathe in air for relief. I also went to see another GP, and after discussing the symptoms, the very first thing she asked was "Have you had a workup for MS?" She suggested I find a neurologist (which is what the ICU doctor asked to do), but the form of Medicaid I have, only one neurologist in my area accepts, so I have to jump through hoops to see him.

Well, labs came back, CBC absolutely perfect, except my WBC is at 15.5k (which it rose from 13.1k in November when I went to the ICU), Auto immunity negative, inflammation negative, RA negative, B12 right in the middle of normal, Thyroid normal, Metabolic function perfect, liver function perfect, Iron perfect. I'm in otherwise absolutely great shape. The nurse practitioner seems stuck on Fibro, and I'm stuck on disagreeing with her (the type of pain just doesn't add up and it doesn't explain the other symptoms), but she prescribed me Savella 3 days ago just to see if it works. The lowest dose does absolutely 0, and I can't express how much of 0 it does. If I could find a fraction of 0 to dull out the worth of that big fat 0 I would use that fraction. I'd rather be on the Tramadol but I can't sleep when I take it at night. The crappy part about it is the drugs contraindicate and I'm stuck in pain. I really don't like pumping my body full of pills.

The funny part is, when the nurse went to look at my lab results, the first thing she came back to say was "I'm going to call in a favor to get an MRI to rule out MS". The good news is I have an MRI on the brain stem to rule out MS scheduled for Tuesday. I haven't been too worried about a possible diagnosis of MS up until now.

Sound like MS to yall?
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby euphoniaa » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:57 am

Alainaluvsu wrote:The funny part is, when the nurse went to look at my lab results, the first thing she came back to say was "I'm going to call in a favor to get an MRI to rule out MS". The good news is I have an MRI on the brain stem to rule out MS scheduled for Tuesday. I haven't been too worried about a possible diagnosis of MS up until now.

Sound like MS to yall?

Hi Alaina and welcome,

It sounds like you may have many issues to sort out and you'll likely need a variety of medical professionals to help you with that. Some of your symptoms seem neurological, but the problem is that most neurological conditions share many of the same symptoms, so symptoms alone don't yield a definitive diagnosis.

And with MS, there is no single definitive test, no definitive symptom -- it's generally a diagnosis of exclusion. For MS, though, the MRI of the brain (NOT just the brain stem) and cervical spine (or C-spine) is the most important first step. And it should be both with and without contrast. My first suggestion is for you to check to see if your MRI order includes all of that.

Next, each of us has a unique set of symptoms, plus many of us have additional medical issues, so comparing yours to ours may not help you much. I always note that no matter what symptom anyone posts on the forum, at least one other person will have it, whether it's due to their MS or not. :smile:

Still, there's a lot of good information on this forum (and some bad info as well... sorry :smile:), so dig in and do your OWN research with an open -- and critical -- mind.

Best of luck and keep us posted.
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:39 am

hi and welcome alaina :)

interesting that you have documented history with magnesium issues. given that you have low normal magnesium on file, yes that is consistent with ms since the average ms patient has low serum magnesium compared to healthy controls.

you could possibly benefit from ruling out a variety of nutritional things that are common to the average ms patient, and work to align your levels with those seen in healthy people instead.

re your 'normal' magnesium result .. that could be distinctly suboptimal and linked to symptoms. 'normal' magnesium is definitely something to take a long second critical look at.
study with particular reference to magnesium and the normal range
Ismail, Y., Ismail, A. A., & Ismail, A. A. (2010). The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for “normal” results. Clinical Chemistry and Laboratory Medicine, 48(3), 323-327.

may i ask what your original serum magnesium level was, as well your more recent serum b12 and iron levels? (for iron i'm assuming the test was serum ferritin)?

more info:

regimens-f22/topic2489.html#p15460
"If you have an MS (or other) diagnosis, you are likely to have a constellation of nutrient imbalances that have been extensively researched. unfortunately, the knowledge gained via this research is only sporadically applied to mainstream treatment.
ms patients and healthy controls can typically all be described as 'normal'. the difference between patients and 'healthies' is RELATIVE deficiency, generally found within the normal range, eg low normal vs high normal. ...
one of the first things to understand when beginning nutrition investigations, is the unfortunate language of the lab. Specifically, the term 'normal'.
As described briefly above, the 'normal' range is often quite a broad range which in many cases includes both sick and healthy people.
There is a much smaller range within the normal range that can be described as 'optimal'."

list of healthy levels for other nutrients of concern for ms patients:
regimens-f22/topic2489.html#p15460
serum vitamin B12: aim for at least 500 pg/mL or 370 pmol/L.
serum vitamin 25(OH)vitaminD3: aim for at least 100 nmol/L (40 ng/mL). preferably 125-150 nmol/L (56-60 ng/mL). ...
serum zinc: aim for 18.2-18.4 umol/L. (~120 ug/dL)
serum copper: aim for 17.3-18 umol/L (or 100-114 ug/dL). ...
serum magnesium: aim for .95-1.1 mmol/L. (or 2.3-2.7 mg/dL).
serum selenium: two reference ranges found..
1..........0.90 to 2.00 µmol/L (adults)
..........< 0.3 µmol/L (in adult) - supplementation may be required
..........> 2.5 µmol/L (in adult) - possible toxicity
2..........1.02 to 1.91 µmol/L, OR 80 to 150 µg/L (molecular weight of Se is 78.96)
serum calcium: just a link to p. 11 for now, more later: regimens-f22/topic2489-150.html#p57111
serum uric acid: aim for 290-300 umol/L (about 5 mg/dL).
serum hemoglobin: at least 13
serum ferritin: i used to go for 100, now I go for 80 because some studies have shown increased disease risk at levels 80 and higher.

hope that helps! if you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:23 pm

First of all I will state that these levels were taken while fasting. The blood draw was at 2:13 pm, and the reported time on them was the next day at 6:17 am.

B12 = 483 PG/ML.

For Iron, there were a collection of tests.

Iron Bind cap - 282 UG/DL
UIBC = 194 UG/DL
Iron Saturation = 31%
Iron = 88 UG/DL

Calcium = 9.5 MG/DL

Hemoglobin = 13.5 G/DL

Magnesium was taken in November, I have no more recent tests on this.

First test = 1.7 mg/dl
Second test (I want to say this was after an IV administration of magnesium, but I'm not sure) = 1.9 mg/dl

Zinc, Copper, OH, Selenium, Uric Acid have never been tested for.

I forgot to add, the dx in November for my arrhythmia was Atrial Fibrillation w/ Rapid Ventricular Response. Cardizem initially converted a pulse of 188 to a pulse of 110, but as soon as I sat up it jumped back to 188. My pulse only went down with time, as it took about 16 hours from the initial onset of tachycardia to finally subside to fully manageable levels. I'll also add that I was prescribed Neurontin which helped with nearly all neurological symptoms to about an 90% capacity (after 2-3 weeks of being on it), however I had to discontinue due to brain fog after one months use.
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 12, 2014 4:02 pm

hi thanks for the detailed info! your b12 is close to the mark, and could be fine if you can deal with that magnesium situation.

hemoglobin looks fine so that's good :D

although we have spent time on them here in the past, i am less familiar with the various iron tests you've had done. i'll have to do some digging to compare what you've got to others.

so you can see in comparison to the list above that both your magnesium results are EXTREMELY poor (even though technically 'normal'). this is a perfect example of why a health warning is needed for normal serum magnesium results! your cardiac issues likely have a strong link to the poor magnesium status.

you mentioned you've been taking mag supplements since the low test result came back. can you tell me more about that?

you may need additional cofactors to improve your magnesium absorption and retention. also, you may be short on potassium given the chronic magnesium issue. if you can arrange it, consider a serum zinc test and a serum 25(OH)vitaminD3 test. the zinc would help you hang onto magnesium. at the same time, without having enough magnesium in your system, your vit d3 status is likely suffering.

Magnesium deficit - overlooked cause of low vitamin D status?
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/229
"Like vitamin D deficit, magnesium deficit is considered to be a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Several steps in the vitamin D metabolism, such as vitamin D binding to its transport protein and the conversion of vitamin D into the hormonal form 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D by hepatic and renal hydroxylation, depend on magnesium as a cofactor. "

Magnesium, vitamin D status and mortality: results from US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2006 and NHANES III
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/187/abstract
High intake of total, dietary or supplemental magnesium was independently associated with significantly reduced risks of vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency respectively. Intake of magnesium significantly interacted with intake of vitamin D in relation to risk of both vitamin D deficiency and insufficiency. Additionally, the inverse association between total magnesium intake and vitamin D insufficiency primarily appeared among populations at high risk of vitamin D insufficiency. Furthermore, the associations of serum 25(OH)D with mortality, particularly due to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and colorectal cancer, were modified by magnesium intake, and the inverse associations were primarily present among those with magnesium intake above the median.
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:52 pm

found one of the older iron topics:

general-discussion-f1/topic13343.html#p130062

iron deficiency anemia
Serum iron - low
Transferrin & TIBC - high
TS - low

anemia of chronic disease
Serum iron - low
Transferrin & TIBC - low
TS - normal

Test # 1
After a 12 hour fast, measure Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) and the Serum Iron (SI).
Serum Iron (SI)/Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) = Transferrin Saturation (TS)
Safe range = 12-44%

Iron Bind cap - 282 UG/DL
UIBC = 194 UG/DL
Iron Saturation = 31%
Iron = 88 UG/DL

so first of all, your serum iron looks all right.

SI in healthy controls: 89.67µg/dl + 2.48
http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... 31446d.pdf

transferrin saturation (31%) looks to be in the safe range too. looks ok :)
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:41 pm

Unless the cardiac issue is neurological in nature, I'm not seeing a cardiac issue being related to magnesium. Ultrasounds, urinary analysis, and blood results (including cardiac enzymes) have all shown that my cardiovascular system is in good shape. BP is always normal. However, the issue does seem to be neurological in nature due to the fact that when tachycardia starts, the rate of 188 is very constant and only moves when I exert myself. Cardizem (which depresses the conduction of the AV node), does work on the resting heart rate when these events occur, but does NOT work when I walk. Wolff Parkinson White may not be far off from a real diagnosis with this, seeing as in WPW, the causation of arrhythmia is 1 or more extra nerves going to the heart, which bypass the AV node.

Potassium was at 3.9 MMOL/L, and seems to be consistent because the hospital results was the exact same amount. I live in New Orleans, and usually keep my window open when it's nice out, so I wouldn't think Vit D to be an issue. Anything is possible, however. I tend to think a metabolic disorder to be unlikely, since liver and CMP tests have all come back normal. I'll run it by my doctor, however, and even the neurologist when I get a chance to see one.

I am concerned with the magnesium levels. I wouldn't call them EXTREMELY poor (unless we assume I have MS and need more Mg because of it), but they are a concern to me. The B12 being below 500 doesn't concern me much. I am not a vegan and as I said, I fasted for the test and given that the blood draw was at 2 pm and I don't go to bed after 12, the NPO was at least 14 hours long. My Mg levels may just be a result of diet, but I do eat beans, rice, fish... things of that nature (not daily, however), so coupled with a 500 mg daily supplement, I'm not seeing any reason why the levels would be off (which I started supplements after hospitalization). Could my body be using a large supply of magnesium in repair, causing the blood level to be lower than it would in an otherwise healthy patient? These levels WERE taken directly after A-fib w/ RVR.
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:24 pm

hi again, potassium level sounds ok. re vitamin d3.. it would probably be smart to check serum levels, if only to prove yourself right. i'd be interested to see a case where just keeping the windows open did the trick. i'm not particularly fussed re that b12 number either.

re magnesium, by some normal ranges used, 1.7 is outright deficient. your 500mg magnesium supplement, what form is that in iima?

fyi:
Assessment of serum magnesium, copper, and zinc levels in multiple sclerosis (MS) patients
http://ijpbs.mazums.ac.ir/browse.php?a_ ... lc_lang=en
Mean serum level of magnesium was 1.87 ± 0.37, copper 110.7 ± 19.5, and zinc 85.4 ± 13.5 in patients (control group), and 2.22 ± 0.24, 133.7 ± 13.4, and 110 ± 8.3 respectively in case group. This difference is statistically significant (P< 0.001).

in other studies, the serum mag levels in healthy controls go even higher. if your serum mag levels are up in the 2.3-2.7 range now and your problems continue, i'd agree that serum magnesium should not be an issue in your case.

if your magnesium deficit does turn out to be recalcitrant, you might want to consider adding serum zinc and serum d3 to the list of tests. could be important things to know!

studies on magnesium and tachycardia
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en& ... 5&as_sdtp=

studies on magnesium and arrhythmia
http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=arrh ... _sdt=0%2C5
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:01 am

I have been using Magnesium Oxide.

1.7 is low by some standards, yes. My ER doctor recognized the low Mg level, I was given 1g of Mg through IV and tested at 1.9 the next day. They originally attempted to convert me with Adenosine (two or three times), but that didn't work. They also gave me an injection for Lovenox in the ER (NO idea why, maybe they suspected heart attack). Not sure if these medications may cause Mg levels to drop acutely.

My biggest hangup in the theory that my arrhythmia is caused by hypomagnesemia is the fact that my pulse stayed so steady at 188 during the entire process. It was literally like clockwork, as if my heart was suppose to go that fast as dictated by my CNS. Furthermore, since low Mg is correlated with cardiac disease, I would think a chronic case of hypomagnesemia would cause further concern for my cardiologist when he's reviewed my EKG and ultrasounds. He literally told me my heart was in excellent shape, and that he sees nothing he can do or suggest himself to prevent these incidents in the future. He knows that I was borderline low for Mg, as well.

However, I'm willing to try anything. These neurological symptoms REALLY suck. It's like 1 week it's my bladder, next week pain, next week tremors... or a mixture of anything from day to day, and then periods of "YAY I FEEL GOOD" that can last anywhere from 1 day to 2 weeks. It's really something different every day, and rarely an all in 1 day.

Oh, by the way, I have 4 windows, all facing west. Opening them gets quite a bit of sunlight in the afternoon... especially since my computer sits right next to one and so does my bed. I love to see the view out of my window and my cat likes to get out on the roof (I'm on the second story) :) ... I'd be absolutely shocked if my zinc levels or Vit D levels were low, considering I eat quite a bit of seafood and cheese, and I have very thick, healthy head of hair that comes down past the middle of my back.

In fact, come to think about it, the reason I am kind of put off by the thought of chronic hypomagnesemia is that I have not experienced any hair loss.
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:01 am

hi again :) you don't have to have every possible symptom of a deficit to be low. i have thick long hair too, but i was still zinc deficient when i first tested. and my magnesium issues were terrible even though my levels were never as low as either of your results..

magnesium oxide is an insoluble inorganic form and is poorly absorbed. the more you take, the faster it goes through you and the less time your body actually gets to try to absorb it. i'd be curious to see what your levels actually are now. for better absorption and retention, you might want to consider a soluble organic form like magnesium glycinate.

interestingly, my docs didn't care about my mag status either. docs don't get much nutrition training in school (as little as 2 hours in some cases, according to the research). the range for magnesium is so inappropriately broad that it doesn't flag trouble to their attention. in my case it was just chance i ran into the right pharmacist one day and he told me how to change how i took magnesium (because at my worst i was taking mag oxide daily). things got better so fast, i couldn't even believe it myself, and had to play with it a bit to convince myself that he was right. it took me an unfortunate while to learn about magnesium citrate (somewhat better than oxide), mag glycinate, magnesium bisglycinate (which was bad) and finally back to mag glycinate (i have mag citrate too and go back and forth depending on the situation). one specialist that i spoke to some time after meeting the pharmacist, wouldn't even believe that magnesium had anything to do with it.

if you try to get most of your daily mag from food, it will serve you far better than a 500mg mag oxide pill.

and as posted above, without the right levles of cofactors in your system you can get as much vit d3 as you want and your body still won't be using it efficiently. worthwhile things to check, if you can!
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:30 am

I'll definitely look into it. I'll try to get a soluble form of Magnesium. It's definitely worth a try. Getting the RDA from food is going to be tricky simply because the medication I'm on at the moment is killing my appetite. I'm planning to get off of it (Savella) as soon as the packet is gone. The only reason I'm using it now is to satisfy the nurse practitioner who is stuck on it being Fibro but side effects are not very nice and I will avoid any and all medication if at all possible.

However I stand by my belief that I'm okay in the zinc and vit d department. If my body was not absorbing enough calcium, protein would be down. My skin, hair, and nails show excellent health, and that is always a direct result of how protein is absorbed into cells. And for the record, my protein tested at 7.6 G/DL
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:06 am

hope you can find some better mag soon!

i have used these in the past:
http://www.iherb.com/Kirkman-Labs-Magne ... ules/43215
and now i use these (the local pharmacy discontinued kirkman and switched to orange):
http://orangenaturals.com/essential/mag ... g_60v_cap/

fyi re fibro
The relationship between serum trace element levels and clinical parameters in patients with fibromyalgia
http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 008-0593-9
"Serum levels of zinc (P = 0.001) and magnesium (P = 0.002) were significantly decreased ... Association between serum zinc level and number of tender points (P = 0.008) and that between fatigue and magnesium level (P = 0.003) was found as meaningful. According to the results of this study, it was asserted that serum magnesium and zinc levels may play an important role in the pathophysiology of FM."

Is magnesium citrate treatment effective on pain, clinical parameters and functional status in patients with fibromyalgia?
http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 011-2334-8
"The number of tender points, tender point index, FIQ and Beck depression scores decreased significantly with the magnesium citrate treatment."

Zinc alleviates pain through high-affinity binding to the NMDA receptor NR2A subunit
http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v14 ... .2844.html
"These results provide a molecular mechanism for the pain-relieving properties of dietary zinc and strengthen the notion that zinc therapy may successfully treat intractable pain, such as fibromyalgia."

here's sunshine not making a difference in patients with fibro (and presumably low mag and zinc as well). body needs cofactors!!:

Bone mass and vitamin D levels in women with a diagnosis of fibromyalgia
http://link.springer.com/article/10.100 ... 013-2434-2
"25OHD levels were also similar: 23.0 ± 9.5 ng/ml and 24.1 ± 9.6 ng/ml. [JL edit: similar, yes. healthy, no] However, while controls showed the usual summer rise in 25OHD, fibromyalgia patients did not."

so, two simple tests could prove you right! consider that nutrient deficits don't always manifest in the same way. vit d is not all about calcium, and zinc is not all about hair skin or nails (although a more severe problem would definitely start to manifest that way). there's a spectrum of issues that can crop up as serum levels fall and i'd argue that the zinc normal range is even worse than the magnesium range. you have to be right at the very top of the zinc normal range to be ok. so if you got tested, the doc would be more than likely to tell you the level was normal. and it would be... just not [b]healthy[/b]. same with vit d3.

recopying from the list above, here are some targets:
serum vitamin 25(OH)vitaminD3: aim for at least 100 nmol/L (40 ng/mL). preferably 125-150 nmol/L (56-60 ng/mL). ...
serum zinc: aim for 18.2-18.4 umol/L. (~120 ug/dL)
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:38 am

Your help is great, Jimmy. Thank you.

You say Vit D is not all about calcium, and Zinc is not about hair skin and nails, but protein is absolutely about hair, skin, and nails (considering protein is the main compound found in hair, skin and nails). Calcium and zinc have a major say in how protein is absorbed intercellularly, which, after all, is the most important indicator of how much nutrients you are getting (serum levels is just a measurement of what *should* be absorbed). However, I'll bring this up with my doctor when I'm off of the Savella and back on my regular diet for a few weeks.

I can almost guarantee I do not have Fibro. Nearly none of the symptoms line up, even the types of pain I experience. The pain isn't in my muscle or joints. The type of pain usually feels like taking a hammer to the bone, or shooting shocking pain that radiates down a nerve. These pains do not last, like they would in Fibromyalgia. I very rarely feel muscle pain. The nurse practitioner, I think, is just jumping a gun and is too stubborn to give it up. No doctor has taken Fibro seriously when I describe my symptoms, even when I tell them my sister has Fibromyalgia.
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:06 pm

hi again, no probs re helping :) maybe your sis can put the fibro info to good use?
if you do get d3 and zinc tested at some point, could turn out to be valuable info going forward (specially re bone pain, it would make so much sense if it's a it d3 issue..!)
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Re: Three Doctors and a Nurse Practitioner Later....

Postby Alainaluvsu » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:11 pm

It wouldn't make sense to be to be a D3 issue, as the "bone pain" typically happens where I have the shooting nerve pain. I've never had bone pain on my ribs or chest cavity, for example. And the same "bone pain" happens in my temple and my eyes as well.

Again, I'd be completely shocked that D3 would be low. I'm showing no sign of any protein or calcium deficiency at the cellular level. And given that I live in New Orleans, where the sun is always shining even in the winter...
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