Not sure what to do

[jennyanydots]

Hi,

About four months ago I developed spasticity in both of my legs, but I don't know why. I've been trying not to consult Dr. Google too much in order to avoid freaking myself out, but have snuck in the occasional search. The first things that comes up when I search for "spasticity" are MS and ALS, and when I look at their other symptoms, some of it does sound like me.

The doctors I've seen haven't mentioned either of those though, which is sometimes reassuring but other times just makes me more freaked out. I want to believe there isn't a big problem here, but I also don't want to end up incapacitated by a big problem that could have been treated sooner.

So far I've seen 2 neurologists. The first one sent me for a lumbar MRI and then referred me to physical therapy, which I've been doing for the past month. The PT thought I should have more testing and a 2nd opinion, so I saw a different neurologist last week. The 2nd neuro said that my neurological exam was normal except for the spasticity in my legs. He scheduled an EMG + nerve conduction study for next week. He also said that if the EMG is normal, then it's probably a tendon issue for an orthopedist.

The 2nd neuro knows that I already saw an orthopedist though, and the orthopedist basically just said it was up to a neuro to diagnose. So maybe I need to see a different orthopedist. I have to say though, the idea that I have a tendon injury with spasticity in both of my legs as the symptom (along with being ridiculously exhausted to the point where I'm worried about keeping my job?) doesn't make much sense to me.

But then again I'm not a doctor. I just don't want to end up being unable to walk because of something that could have been prevented or delayed if I'd done something different. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated, and thank you for listening

[jimmylegs]

hi experiment for you: if you don't have any, pick up some magnesium glycinate (personally i use orange naturals brand most often) and a b complex. take one of each for a week to see what happens.
boost magnesium and b6 and potassium rich foods in diet for a month.
for magnesium, you're aiming for 7-10 mg/kg body weight per day.
healthy food sources including amount of nutrient per serving:
mag http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
b6 http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
potassium http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... #foodchart

note the repeat appearances of dark leafy greens. there are several good reasons why public health messaging is always going on about these
recently heard that three 1.5 c servings per week of dark leafy greens was a good target.
serving size and preparation method is important for these, given oxalic acid content.
swiss chard gets a 3 min boil, spinach gets 1 min boil. this reduces oxalic acid and gets you the density of plant material per serving needed to achieve the stated amount of a nutrient per serving.

i have gotten into the habit of buying boxes of frozen chopped spinach, cutting them up into cubes, putting the cubes back in the freezer, and just adding one or more chopped spinach cubes to anything and everything. as far as tastebuds and mouth feel is concerned, spinach disappears into all kinds of things. i recently mixed up some mashed root veg including potato rutabaga carrot and spinach, and it was excellent. spinach in soup, spaghetti sauce, quiche or in a quick omelet, and right now am going through a container of spinach-y chili.

i've definitely suffered all kinds of muscle issues before, and have past decades of symptoms consistent with low mag status. early in the last decade also had tested with low normal serum mag levels. for me, symptoms clear up and levels go up with careful attention to diet and essential nutrient requirements. next time you search your symptoms, add the term magnesium and see what you find to read

[jennyanydots]

Thanks, jimmylegs.

The spinach cubes are a great idea, and I will also try adding a magnesium supplement. I have actually been using a magnesium cream at night, but have no idea how much magnesium it even contains much less how well it's absorbed. (Basically I just tried the cream because I hate taking pills - and the cream has turned out to be helpful for sleep, but maybe adding an oral supplement or just more magnesium in some other form would help more with the spasticity.)

I also currently take a D vitamin + this multivitamin that includes B vitamins:
http://www.gnc.com/Smarty-Pants-Womens- ... =100539136
Maybe I should add more B vitamins though -

[jimmylegs]

hi no problem tonight's menu involves a mushroom and onion white sauce with some chicken breast. and a couple of side veg. the sauce is about to receive its spinach-y infusion

i have zero info on how well mag from topical cream is absorbed, but certainly mag via skin is an established route.
you can also take epsom salts baths (i hear mag chloride flakes are better than mag sulfate crystals but either should help a bit).
if you are near the ocean, swimming in seawater is good too.

if you hate pills, you can also try this mag citrate powder and mix it up with water for a drink.
http://naturalvitality.com/natural-calm/
i asked at the store once which flavours were most popular and they said the lemon raspberry but they also go through a lot of the cherry.

random musing: i wonder if some magnesium if taken as a drink, could potentially get straight into your bloodstream via the mucous membranes in your mouth. in the past i've used sublingual products for vitamin b12 and it's established that the sublingual route works just as well as injection for that. so i wonder if natural calm would work in a similar way, vs having to send the mag through the GI tract where it has to deal with so many competing factors.

thx for the multi dtls - may come in handy.

whenever possible, do make sure you emphasize nutrient dense food sources first, and only top up with supplement products. nature comes with important cofactors built in, which is not generally the case with isolated supplements - who knows how many beneficial whole food factors we don't even understand yet, that are in there working away behind the scenes. glad you like the sound of the spinach cubes

question re the vit d3, how much do you take daily, and what form? how long have you been taking it? and do you take it with the multi, or at a diff time? you do want to watch out for d3 interactions with mag.

[ElliotB]

A couple of more options for you...

Try drinking Tonic water which has quinine in it. Quinine is though to help with spasticity.

This is the one I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Drinks-Tonic-Wat ... HFX84?th=1


Not sure how much exercise you do but I have found that lots of it (walking is fine) helped me through some tough times with regard to spasticity.


If you are not at your ideal body weight, target this issue as well.


With regards to vitamins, a multi is good but basically has only small amounts of each ingredient. You may want to add higher doses of some of the key vitamins, especially D, B and EFAs (Omega 3).

[Scott1]

Hi,

I would definitely see a neuro. You only picked on two possibilities. Things that are the polar opposite of what you selected can also cause spasticity. It's also yet to be determined if it is a classic spastic reaction. We only have a limited interpretation.

I would get a lot more testing. Dr Google is a good resource but he is often wrong.

Regards,

[jimmylegs]

personally, i would never suggest *adding* vit d3 for spasticity. d3 depletes magnesium. very counterintuitive suggestion.

research results re magnesium and spasm
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=%22 ... _sdt=0%2C5

compare research results re d3 and spasm
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=%22 ... _sdt=0%2C5

from the d3 results i note with particular interest:

Effects of a dietary magnesium deficiency and excess vitamin D3 on swine coronary arteries (JL: arteries aka smooth *muscle*).
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 0.10720365
"The effect of a moderate magnesium (Mg) deficiency on coronary arteries of 61 swine, fed various levels of vitamin D3, was studied by light and electron microscopy. The effect of subnormal Mg intake on vitamin D3-induced intimal lesions of the arteries showed a trend towards increased damage. The degree of cell degeneration and intimal thickening, which was induced by high vitamin D intakes, was as great in swine whose diet was low in Mg and moderately high in vitamin D as it was in those on twice as much vitamin D. Also, the degree of arterial calcification was intensified by inadequate Mg intake at the two higher vitamin D intakes. Present findings indicate that suboptimal dietary Mg, in combination with an excess of vitamin D, has an additive effect in the initiation of ultrastructural changes in the coronary arteries. Extension of the study is indicated to ascertain the extent to which further reduction of Mg intake can potentiate vitamin-D-induced coronary lesions."

i would also never jump to MS or ALS before ensuring basic essential nutrient needs were met. afaic you have been very wise not to jump too deep into neuro territory based on a muscle symptom. since you've been getting bounced back and forth between specialists, i think the essential nutrition experiment could be a very wise option to pursue.

re the fatigue you mentioned, the most common usual suspect would be iron. our friend spinach won't hurt there either, especially if combined with good sources of vit C like red pepper, broccoli, strawberries, rose hip tea and so on.
healthy iron rich foods http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
who knew popeye was such a nutritionist. ;)