MRI w/o Contrast

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MRI w/o Contrast

Postby germifer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:26 pm

Hello,

My Neuro has scheduled me an MRI with and without contrast. I am a biomedical healing mama (mother of a recovering autistic daughter). I have read many studies that indicated contrast is very toxic and I would like to opt out of it and just do a scan without. My question is, is contrast detrimental for seeing lesions? I obviously know you have to do what you have to do, but since studying and researching toxin over the past two years, I do my very best to avoid them at all costs. Thank you so much!
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby euphoniaa » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:58 pm

germifer wrote:Hello,

My Neuro has scheduled me an MRI with and without contrast. I am a biomedical healing mama (mother of a recovering autistic daughter). I have read many studies that indicated contrast is very toxic and I would like to opt out of it and just do a scan without. My question is, is contrast detrimental for seeing lesions? I obviously know you have to do what you have to do, but since studying and researching toxin over the past two years, I do my very best to avoid them at all costs. Thank you so much!


Hi germifer, and welcome! The contrast medium helps to indicate "active" lesions -- they apparently "light up" -- but lesions should still show up clearly without it. My very first brain/C-spine MRIs were done only without contrast, and they still showed my brain was jammed full of classic MS-type lesions, thus giving me a quick diagnosis. A year later, a repeat of the MRIs, both with and without contrast, showed basically the same lesions.

Over the years I've had several more rounds of MRIs, both with/without contrast, and since none of my lesions have ever been active, there's been basically no difference between them.

Good luck to you!
Dx'd with MS & HNPP (hereditary peripheral neuropathy) 7/03 but must have had MS for 30 yrs before that. I've never taken meds for MS except 1 yr experiment on LDN. (I found diet, exercise, sleep, humor, music help me the most.)
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:32 pm

germifer wrote:My Neuro has scheduled me an MRI with and without contrast. I am a biomedical healing mama (mother of a recovering autistic daughter). I have read many studies that indicated contrast is very toxic and I would like to opt out of it and just do a scan without. My question is, is contrast detrimental for seeing lesions? I obviously know you have to do what you have to do, but since studying and researching toxin over the past two years, I do my very best to avoid them at all costs.
Welcome to ThisIsMS, germifer.

I leave it to other people here who can refer to studies of MRIs and contrast. With your research, you probably know the details well. Gadolinium is the contrast used; it is a heavy metal.

I am most interested in your description of your daughter as "a recovering autistic daughter."

In view of the following article, I wonder if your daughter has ever had a vitamin D blood test. (For that matter, in the course of your neuro's investigation – which now calls for an MRI – I wonder if you have had the vitamin D blood test called "25-hydroxy D." Nutrient levels (including vitamin D) are frequently low in people with MS. The same neurological symptoms are exhibited in both vitamin D deficiency and MS.

Autism, will vitamin D treat core symptoms
? (2013)
John Jacob Cannell
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 7713002338

Abstract
No medication exists to treat the core symptoms of autism. However, some children spontaneously improve and have optimal outcomes. Parents of autistic children who have access to swimming pool have reported summertime improvement in symptoms to me. A Japanese case report found the same summer times improvements. If the cause of that summertime improvement could be identified, it may lead to effective treatment. Vitamin D is highly seasonal with a summertime surfeit and a wintertime deficit. The hypotheses that the increased prevalence in the diagnosis of autism is due to better detection imply that parents, teachers and physicians of the 1950s, 60s, and 70s missed this non subtle diagnosis, an unlikely scenario. Recent research indicates that autism often first present itself during the second and third year of life. This is a time when most toddlers have no known sources of vitamin D. Vitamin D has remarkable antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and anti-autoimmune properties. In vitro, in vivo, and animal experiments provide compelling data for vitamin D’s role brain proliferation, differentiation, neurotrophism, neuroprotection, neurotransmission, and neuroplasticity. It also upregulates glutathione, upregulates a suit of genes involved in DNA repair and raises the seizure threshold. Adequate, perhaps pharmacological, doses of vitamin D may have a treatment effect in the core symptoms of autism.
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby Boudreaux » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:13 am

I never get the contrast because of the same reason you stated, supposedly it's some nasty stuff. Without contrast will show older lesions where scar tissue has developed but not new or "active" lesions. The way I understand it is even with the contrast a person could have some low level demylenation that would not be seen.

If you are actively having symptoms and are undergoing the tests for diagnosing purposes, I would do the contrast. If you have a Dx and are just following up for progression I would skip it.
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby NHE » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:31 am

Gadolinium deposition disease.

general-discussion-f1/topic28399.html#p244505

Gadolinium accumulates in the brain.

general-discussion-f1/topic26301.html#p234351

My experience, gadolinium can stick around in the body for at least 10 years, perhaps longer.

general-discussion-f1/topic23984.html#p219759
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby germifer » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:29 am

I am most interested in your description of your daughter as "a recovering autistic daughter."


I am recovering her in multiple ways. We see a MAPS Doctor out here and he runs tests your typical pediatrician does not. We use methods like ACC (Andrew Ctler Chelation) to help detox heavy metals from vaccines and environment. We eat clean (EX: 100% grass fed beef, organic, no dairy, gluten, grains, soy, refined sugars... anything inflammatory... no sodas, or juices that are not home made, ets), we have rid out house of all toxins (Got rid of all non-stick cook wear, got rid of all chemical cleaners, stop using pesticides etc), We are addressing her deficiencies (not vit d though, as she has been tested for that). Through this testing we have learned that our daughter has mitochondrial dysfunction (VERY common among ASD kiddos), so we are supporting that etc.

I believe most ASD kids can be recovered, and know over 50 parents personally (in my little support group) and thousands of parents (in my online support group) that have seen partial to full recovery with their children. The improvements in our child have been profound! SO profound in fact that we no longer qualify for developmental therapy!

I on the other hand am low on Vit D. I take D3 w/ MK7 5000 daily (instead of the D2 50,000 weekly Dr suggested). I upped my magnesium as well.
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby lyndacarol » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:45 am

germifer wrote:I am most interested in your description of your daughter as "a recovering autistic daughter."


I am recovering her in multiple ways. We see a MAPS Doctor out here and he runs tests your typical pediatrician does not. We use methods like ACC (Andrew Ctler Chelation) to help detox heavy metals from vaccines and environment. We eat clean (EX: 100% grass fed beef, organic, no dairy, gluten, grains, soy, refined sugars... anything inflammatory... no sodas, or juices that are not home made, ets), we have rid out house of all toxins (Got rid of all non-stick cook wear, got rid of all chemical cleaners, stop using pesticides etc), We are addressing her deficiencies (not vit d though, as she has been tested for that). Through this testing we have learned that our daughter has mitochondrial dysfunction (VERY common among ASD kiddos), so we are supporting that etc.

I believe most ASD kids can be recovered, and know over 50 parents personally (in my little support group) and thousands of parents (in my online support group) that have seen partial to full recovery with their children. The improvements in our child have been profound! SO profound in fact that we no longer qualify for developmental therapy!

I on the other hand am low on Vit D. I take D3 w/ MK7 5000 daily (instead of the D2 50,000 weekly Dr suggested). I upped my magnesium as well.
The lifestyle/program you have for your daughter sounds exemplary! Ideal for you too!

As for vitamin D… You are very knowledgeable: D3 is preferred over D2; MK-7 is important; and it's good to increase magnesium since, among its many uses, it is used in the conversion of vitamin D3 to its active form.

I find lots of good information on vitamin D and MANY conditions from GrassrootsHealth (http://www.GrassrootsHealth.net) – the standard range at most labs extends to a level that allows people in that low-end to feel their levels are healthy when they may NOT be (IMO, Vit D is one substance where it is better for people with neurological symptoms to aim for the high-end of the standard range, i.e. 70-100 ng/mL).
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby germifer » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:55 pm

lyndacarol wrote:
germifer wrote:I am most interested in your description of your daughter as "a recovering autistic daughter."


I am recovering her in multiple ways. We see a MAPS Doctor out here and he runs tests your typical pediatrician does not. We use methods like ACC (Andrew Ctler Chelation) to help detox heavy metals from vaccines and environment. We eat clean (EX: 100% grass fed beef, organic, no dairy, gluten, grains, soy, refined sugars... anything inflammatory... no sodas, or juices that are not home made, ets), we have rid out house of all toxins (Got rid of all non-stick cook wear, got rid of all chemical cleaners, stop using pesticides etc), We are addressing her deficiencies (not vit d though, as she has been tested for that). Through this testing we have learned that our daughter has mitochondrial dysfunction (VERY common among ASD kiddos), so we are supporting that etc.

I believe most ASD kids can be recovered, and know over 50 parents personally (in my little support group) and thousands of parents (in my online support group) that have seen partial to full recovery with their children. The improvements in our child have been profound! SO profound in fact that we no longer qualify for developmental therapy!

I on the other hand am low on Vit D. I take D3 w/ MK7 5000 daily (instead of the D2 50,000 weekly Dr suggested). I upped my magnesium as well.
The lifestyle/program you have for your daughter sounds exemplary! Ideal for you too!

As for vitamin D… You are very knowledgeable: D3 is preferred over D2; MK-7 is important; and it's good to increase magnesium since, among its many uses, it is used in the conversion of vitamin D3 to its active form.

I find lots of good information on vitamin D and MANY conditions from GrassrootsHealth (http://www.GrassrootsHealth.net) – the standard range at most labs extends to a level that allows people in that low-end to feel their levels are healthy when they may NOT be (IMO, Vit D is one substance where it is better for people with neurological symptoms to aim for the high-end of the standard range, i.e. 70-100 ng/mL).









Thank you for the website and suggestions. I did my MRI w/o contrast last night and will hopefully have results by next Thursday. Although I am not too sure how definitive they will be since I refused contrast but we shall see. The only negative is that they gave me all my images without an explanation of them so I have been here torturing myself wondering what every little spot on my brain is, ha! I am looking into a functional medicine Dr for me, regardless of how the results turn out, there is definitely something going on with me and I need to address it. (My Vit D came back at 21 ng/mL)
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby germifer » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:02 pm

NHE wrote:Gadolinium deposition disease.

general-discussion-f1/topic28399.html#p244505

Gadolinium accumulates in the brain.

general-discussion-f1/topic26301.html#p234351

My experience, gadolinium can stick around in the body for at least 10 years, perhaps longer.

general-discussion-f1/topic23984.html#p219759



Thank you for the links!! We are familiar with Chelation since we use the ACC method on our daughter to rid her of heavy metals. What you have stated in your posts is exactly what I was researching. Especially since studies suggest it can break the blood brain barrier. I just feel at this time it is not worth it although someone I know recommended The pekana detox kit. Ever heard of it? I have not and will be asking my daughters MAPS doctor(practices functional meds) about it when we see him next (in a few months).
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby lyndacarol » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:36 am

germifer wrote:......there is definitely something going on with me and I need to address it. (My Vit D came back at 21 ng/mL)
My first test result was 24 ng/mL.

You may be interested in the GrassrootsHealth Newsletter, March 9, 2017, “March is Multiple Sclerosis Month”, featuring Dr. Cicero Galli Coimbra:

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Marc ... FmesK8nKos

In fact, there is an entire subforum here at TIMS devoted to "Coimbra High-Dose Vitamin D Protocol" (coimbra-high-dose-vitamin-d-protocol-f57/), which you may also find interesting.
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:03 am

blinders on? check.

A comprehensive systematic review and meta-analysis of pharmacological and dietary supplement interventions in paediatric autism: moderators of treatment response and recommendations for future research
http://bit.ly/2on8LZ2
"vitamin D seems to be deficient in patients with ASD. (jl:like everyone else) Few trials reported adequate baseline characteristics to permit detailed analysis of response to treatment. Consideration of geographical location, baseline severity and intellectual function is required to ensure generalizability of results. The use of biological markers and correlates in ASD trials remains in its infancy. There is great need to improve the application of baseline characterization and incorporation of biological markers and correlates to permit selection of participants into homogeneous subgroups and to inform response to treatment in ASD."
Environmental risk factors for autism: an evidence-based review of systematic reviews and meta-analyses
https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.c ... 017-0121-4
"Compared to genetic studies of ASD, studies of environmental risk factors are in their infancy and have significant methodological limitations. Future studies of ASD risk factors would benefit from a developmental psychopathology approach, prospective design, precise exposure measurement, reliable timing of exposure in relation to critical developmental periods and should take into account the dynamic interplay between gene and environment by using genetically informed designs."

Vitamin D and autism, what’s new?
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-9409-0
"Two open label trials found high dose vitamin D improves the core symptoms of autism in about 75% of autistic children. A few of the improvements were remarkable. The vitamin D doses used in these children were 300 IU/KG/day up to a maximum of 5000 IU/day (highest final 25(OH)D level reached was 45 ng/ml). The other study used 150,000 IU/month IM as well as 400 IU/day [highest final 25(OH)D level was 52 ng/ml]. These two open label trials were recently confirmed with a randomized controlled trial (RCT) using 300 IU/kg/day with a maximum of 5000 IU/day and resulted in effects similar to the two open label studies. In terms of prevention, a recent small study showed vitamin D supplementation during pregnancy (5000 IU/day) and during infancy and early childhood (1000 IU/day) significantly reduced the expected incidence of autism in mothers who already had one autistic child from 20% to 5%."
re saad et L 2016, 300 IU/KG/day up to a maximum of 5000 IU/day http://bit.ly/2nIUaoh
study duration: 3 months. full text search results for cofactor = 0, calcium = 0, magnesium = 0.

re feng et al 2016, study duration: 3 months.

haven't found one yet that monitored for relevant cofactors or that followed pediatric patients for any meaningfully long term period. will be interesting to watch this body of literature mature.
take control of your own health
pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: MRI w/o Contrast

Postby germifer » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:21 pm

jimmylegs wrote:blinders on? check.

A comprehensive systematic review and meta-analysis of pharmacological and dietary supplement interventions in paediatric autism: moderators of treatment response and recommendations for future research
http://bit.ly/2on8LZ2
"vitamin D seems to be deficient in patients with ASD. (jl:like everyone else) Few trials reported adequate baseline characteristics to permit detailed analysis of response to treatment. Consideration of geographical location, baseline severity and intellectual function is required to ensure generalizability of results. The use of biological markers and correlates in ASD trials remains in its infancy. There is great need to improve the application of baseline characterization and incorporation of biological markers and correlates to permit selection of participants into homogeneous subgroups and to inform response to treatment in ASD."
Environmental risk factors for autism: an evidence-based review of systematic reviews and meta-analyses
https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.c ... 017-0121-4
"Compared to genetic studies of ASD, studies of environmental risk factors are in their infancy and have significant methodological limitations. Future studies of ASD risk factors would benefit from a developmental psychopathology approach, prospective design, precise exposure measurement, reliable timing of exposure in relation to critical developmental periods and should take into account the dynamic interplay between gene and environment by using genetically informed designs."

Vitamin D and autism, what’s new?
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 017-9409-0
"Two open label trials found high dose vitamin D improves the core symptoms of autism in about 75% of autistic children. A few of the improvements were remarkable. The vitamin D doses used in these children were 300 IU/KG/day up to a maximum of 5000 IU/day (highest final 25(OH)D level reached was 45 ng/ml). The other study used 150,000 IU/month IM as well as 400 IU/day [highest final 25(OH)D level was 52 ng/ml]. These two open label trials were recently confirmed with a randomized controlled trial (RCT) using 300 IU/kg/day with a maximum of 5000 IU/day and resulted in effects similar to the two open label studies. In terms of prevention, a recent small study showed vitamin D supplementation during pregnancy (5000 IU/day) and during infancy and early childhood (1000 IU/day) significantly reduced the expected incidence of autism in mothers who already had one autistic child from 20% to 5%."
re saad et L 2016, 300 IU/KG/day up to a maximum of 5000 IU/day http://bit.ly/2nIUaoh
study duration: 3 months. full text search results for cofactor = 0, calcium = 0, magnesium = 0.

re feng et al 2016, study duration: 3 months.

haven't found one yet that monitored for relevant cofactors or that followed pediatric patients for any meaningfully long term period. will be interesting to watch this body of literature mature.



Not sure what you mean by blinders on... but thanks for the literature,
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