Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

This is the place to ask questions if you have symptoms that suggest MS, but aren't yet diagnosed.

Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby vesta » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:26 am

nwolfe88 wrote:But, they also did a cervical MRI (neck) and noticed the following:
*some abnormality of the signal in the spinal cord (demyelinating areas), "may be MS" it said

They were also pointing out an area where the spinal cord fluid channel on one side of the spinal cord seemed a little pinched, or narrower than the rest. The doc said usually they'd see a bulging disc with it, but her disc was fine. Could that disc have recently healed but is still swollen/inflamed, pushing on the cord and causing the signal abnormalities? ...

Any thoughts? I have a couple pictures of her MRI but not sure if I'm allowed to post those here? Is there anything else that it could be besides MS?

Thank you so much!


Greetings :

Chiropractorr Dr Michael Flanagan believed that up to 25% of « MS » cases were actually caused by obstructed CNS fluid circulation – blood and or cerebro-spinal fluid. (We’ll call that CCSVI-MS). Since your wife apparently has some obstruction in the CSF of the spinal cord., that is probably the best place to start (as well as checking out Vit B12 deficiency). See Dr. Rosa on CCSVI Alliance www.ccsvi.org/.

Consider getting a FONAR Cine upright MRI to know exactly how the CSF is circulating. (Or see a NUCCA Chiropractor who works on the Atlas.)

I don’t know where you are located but there are apparently 15 centers in the US (and one in London).

Best regards, Vesta
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:29 am

re the stress question. that's really just me googling rather than you. pretty vague - what kind of stress are you talking about?

my google result

Stressful life events and the risk of initial central nervous system demyelination.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27600112
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:42 am

personally, i don't really spend much time on ccsvi - when i do, it tends to look like this
chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic17004.html

from a small 2018 study:

Cerebrospinal Fluid Dynamics in Patients with Multiple Sclerosis: The Role of Phase-Contrast MRI in the Differential Diagnosis of Active and Chronic Disease
https://synapse.koreamed.org/DOIx.php?i ... 18.19.1.72

... Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI) has been proposed as a new hypothesis for the etiopathogenesis of MS disease. MS-CCSVI includes a significant decrease of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) flow through the cerebral aqueduct secondary to an impaired venous outflow from the central nervous system. This study aimed to determine whether CSF flow dynamics are affected in MS patients and the contributions to differential diagnosis in active and chronic disease using phase-contrast magnetic resonance imaging (PC-MRI).
...
No statistically significant difference was found between the groups regarding average velocity, net forward volume and the average flow (p > 0.05). Compared with the controls, group 1 and group 2, showed a higher peak velocity (5.5 ± 1.4, 4.9 ± 1.0, and 4.3 ± 1.3 cm/sec, respectively; p = 0.040), aqueductal area (5.0 ± 1.3, 4.1 ± 1.5, and 3.1 ± 1.2 mm2, respectively; p = 0.002), forward volume (0.039 ± 0.016, 0.031 ± 0.013, and 0.021 ± 0.010 mL, respectively; p = 0.002) and reverse volume (0.027 ± 0.016, 0.018 ± 0.009, and 0.012 ± 0.006 mL, respectively; p = 0.000).
... The MS patients with chronic plaques showed a significantly higher reverse volume (p = 0.000).

Conclusion
This study indicated that CSF flow is affected in MS patients, contrary to the hypothesis that CCSVI-induced CSF flow decreases in MS patients. These findings may be explained by atrophy-dependent ventricular dilatation, which may occur at every stage of MS.
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ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby vesta » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:46 am

jimmylegs wrote:personally, i don't really spend much time on ccsvi - when i do, it tends to look like this
chronic-cerebrospinal-venous-insufficiency-ccsvi-f40/topic17004.html

from a small 2018 study:

Cerebrospinal Fluid Dynamics in Patients with Multiple Sclerosis: The Role of Phase-Contrast MRI in the Differential Diagnosis of Active and Chronic Disease
https://synapse.koreamed.org/DOIx.php?i ... 18.19.1.72

... Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency (CCSVI) has been proposed as a new hypothesis for the etiopathogenesis of MS disease. MS-CCSVI includes a significant decrease of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) flow through the cerebral aqueduct secondary to an impaired venous outflow from the central nervous system. This study aimed to determine whether CSF flow dynamics are affected in MS patients and the contributions to differential diagnosis in active and chronic disease using phase-contrast magnetic resonance imaging (PC-MRI).
...

No statistically significant difference was found between the groups regarding average velocity, net forward volume and the average flow (p > 0.05). Compared with the controls, group 1 and group 2, showed a higher peak velocity (5.5 ± 1.4, 4.9 ± 1.0, and 4.3 ± 1.3 cm/sec, respectively; p = 0.040), aqueductal area (5.0 ± 1.3, 4.1 ± 1.5, and 3.1 ± 1.2 mm2, respectively; p = 0.002), forward volume (0.039 ± 0.016, 0.031 ± 0.013, and 0.021 ± 0.010 mL, respectively; p = 0.002) and reverse volume (0.027 ± 0.016, 0.018 ± 0.009, and 0.012 ± 0.006 mL, respectively; p = 0.000).
... The MS patients with chronic plaques showed a significantly higher reverse volume (p = 0.000).

Conclusion
This study indicated that CSF flow is affected in MS patients, contrary to the hypothesis that CCSVI-induced CSF flow decreases in MS patients. These findings may be explained by atrophy-dependent ventricular dilatation, which may occur at every stage of MS.


Greetings:

In my opinion you have had Vit B12 deficiency MS and not CCSVI-MS so it's normal for you to be pre-occupied with supplements/nutrition.

Regards, Vesta
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby nwolfe88 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:50 pm

She saw the neurologist today. At first glance of the MRI's the neurologist said something about possible nerve damage around c2 or c3, not ruling out MS. Could also be causing the loss of ability to raise arms in certain positions (nerve issues). She's getting more detailed MRIs tomorrow. Also got a bunch of bloodwork.
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:02 pm

i don't need your opinion on my input, v. we've been over it already.

nw, good to hear you've been making progress :)
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby nwolfe88 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:07 pm

jimmylegs wrote:i don't need your opinion on my input, v. we've been over it already.

nw, good to hear you've been making progress :)


Thank you for your contributions (and everyone's). Was also reading damage to c4/c5 nerves would probably cause the shoulder issues. I guess we will know soon enough. I will report back.
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:14 am

no problem :)
without reading back over the whole topic i'm curious if there's been any history that could implicate any sort of physical trauma.
i know in my case that a 'whiplash headsmash' helmetless snowboarding wipeout precipitated my dx attack. mind you, i think it basically just put a preexisting degenerative situation on the front burner.
and speaking of degenerative, i see arthritis listed as a potential factor in c spine injury as well. i recall my neuro commenting that i had 'a ratty neck for my age' (thanks doc lol)
anyway will look forward to any news when results start to come back
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pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby nwolfe88 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:35 am

jimmylegs wrote:no problem :)
without reading back over the whole topic i'm curious if there's been any history that could implicate any sort of physical trauma.
i know in my case that a 'whiplash headsmash' helmetless snowboarding wipeout precipitated my dx attack. mind you, i think it basically just put a preexisting degenerative situation on the front burner.
and speaking of degenerative, i see arthritis listed as a potential factor in c spine injury as well. i recall my neuro commenting that i had 'a ratty neck for my age' (thanks doc lol)
anyway will look forward to any news when results start to come back


No MS specific symptoms. Like I said, she's healthy, high energy, does Crossfit, etc. She has a history of migraines (runs in the family), but that's about it. Well, and her shoulder issue, but I think that has more to do with nerve compression/damage than anything else. Could that cause demyelination?

Her chiro said she has something of a "ratty neck" too :P
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:21 am

thx. i was curious about possible past trauma/injury or degenerative stuff though.

i'm a little outside my wheelhouse with this stuff but

Demyelination and Schwann cell responses adjacent to injury epicenter cavities following chronic human spinal cord injury
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 8604004741

Demyelination and remyelination after spinal cord injury.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16629621

Spinal cord injury is accompanied by chronic progressive demyelination
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 20517/full

the migraine situation is a whole other kettle of fish. has she taken a diet diary, including daily food, fluids, meds, supplement intakes and activity levels to a dietitian (sports dietitian even?) for assessment re adherence to intake needs appropriate to active individuals?

not that i've been active lately, but i did have a visual migraine start to kick in the other day. everything was shimmery and kind of cross-hatched, especially on the left side. extra emphasis on magnesium that day did the trick, as usual for me :) probably in terms of its diverse interactions with a wide variety of body systems, including migraine symptoms.

i was floored recently when i had a headache (not migriaine) so bad, magnesium did not do the trick. had to resort to advil and even that did not work. i couldn't think straight. had to add tylenol and then at least things backed off a bit! it's the first time i've taken pain killers in as long as i can remember, except when recovering from knee reconstruction surgery in fall 2013 (blew the ACL at work, fun).
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pursue optimal self care at least as actively as a diagnosis
ask for referrals to preventive health care specialists eg dietitians
don't let suboptimal self care muddy any underlying diagnostic picture!
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby nwolfe88 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:18 am

jimmylegs wrote:thx. i was curious about possible past trauma/injury or degenerative stuff though.

i'm a little outside my wheelhouse with this stuff but

Demyelination and Schwann cell responses adjacent to injury epicenter cavities following chronic human spinal cord injury
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 8604004741

Demyelination and remyelination after spinal cord injury.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16629621

Spinal cord injury is accompanied by chronic progressive demyelination
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 20517/full

the migraine situation is a whole other kettle of fish. has she taken a diet diary, including daily food, fluids, meds, supplement intakes and activity levels to a dietitian (sports dietitian even?) for assessment re adherence to intake needs appropriate to active individuals?

not that i've been active lately, but i did have a visual migraine start to kick in the other day. everything was shimmery and kind of cross-hatched, especially on the left side. extra emphasis on magnesium that day did the trick, as usual for me :) probably in terms of its diverse interactions with a wide variety of body systems, including migraine symptoms.

i was floored recently when i had a headache (not migriaine) so bad, magnesium did not do the trick. had to resort to advil and even that did not work. i couldn't think straight. had to add tylenol and then at least things backed off a bit! it's the first time i've taken pain killers in as long as i can remember, except when recovering from knee reconstruction surgery in fall 2013 (blew the ACL at work, fun).


Preliminary report from the new MRI's says no MS, but mentions a "non-specific cyst" in her brain (not sure what that means). The report made mention of it but never said anything was wrong. Still can't raise her arm and having weakness in shoulder. Her actual neuro will review the MRI's himself sometime today or tomorrow.

Still doesn't explain the "abnormal signal" or "subtle demyelination" from the first set of MRI's either.
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Re: Posting for my wife, MRI report 'May be MS'

Postby NHE » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:10 pm

nwolfe88 wrote:Preliminary report from the new MRI's says no MS, but mentions a "non-specific cyst" in her brain (not sure what that means). The report made mention of it but never said anything was wrong. Still can't raise her arm and having weakness in shoulder. Her actual neuro will review the MRI's himself sometime today or tomorrow.

A discussion on brain cysts... https://www.saintlukeskc.org/health-library/brain-cyst
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