Veterans and MS

A place for discussion related to MS and veterans.

I Served in the Gulf '87-'88

Postby Outlawbiker » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:48 am

Before there was oil fires etc. We did receive however additional "vaccinations" prior to deployment out of San Diego with a few more along the way. We also took anti malaria meds before a 10 day stop in Kenya.

As far as MRE's and Sea Rat's are concerned, not ruling out possibilities there. I remember these 1/2 pints of milk flavored in chocolate and strawberry that needed no refridgeration, had no shelf-life date and could be stored indefinately. Scary stuff.

When the VA's MS centers of Excellence were first putting up their websites a few years back. I was among the first to register and ask "questions Veterans ask". Many are still there. They include: # of Gulf era vets with MS, Shotgun vaccinations overwhelming immune systems, exposure to the depleted uranium ammunition that Ships working parties ALL got their hands on at one time or another. Doc's tried to tell me only the dust from fragmented exploded shells was bad. (I smell a rat), and of course some kind of viral or parasite exposure in those particular parts of the world.

If you check out that VA website, one thing that rings through all the "experts" replies was this: We have no proof linking military service with MS! Same out of the DOD.

The fact that I wasn't exposed to the Sarin, oil well fires etc. and only "came down" with MS screams volumes for the even more unfortunate brothers and sisters who were exposed to those on top of it and came back with ALS!!

UH, HELLO!! DO WE SEE A PATTERN HERE? A CONNECTION POSSIBLY?!!!

Yeah........ I'm still very pissed off! (can ya tell?) DX'd at 34 1/2 years of age. Retired for the same reasons that other poor fella with the 16 y/o kid did. Though I can still ride my Harley and even rode to Sturgis last summer. It was brutal but just like MR. Heston said when with the NRA........ I'll quit riding when they take the handle bars "From my COLD DEAD HANDS!!"
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Re: I Served in the Gulf '87-'88

Postby Minai » Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:53 pm

Hi Outlawbiker,

Thank you for your service :!: Great post.

As far as vaccines...I keep comparing all to the then (Faroe Isles MS epidemic) and the now (Gulf War) studies. Yes, there were some of the same vaccines given the soldiers, but not to the either of the indigenous, in comparison.

Anti-malarials? Mefloquine is not pretty. When I was diagnosed, my husband had just MOB'd to HOA for nearly a year. He, and others, began experiencing extreme reactions to it. Definitely not ideal for long-term prevention. So, what were they switched to, as an alternative? Doxycycline. One of the same ABX that I am treating my MS with, right now.

MRE and SRATs? Yes, in that recent studies (such as what I posted) seem to provide some evidence that bad cholesterol makes one susecptible to and/or exacerbates infection such as CPn.


Outlawbiker wrote:When the VA's MS centers of Excellence were first putting up their websites a few years back. I was among the first to register and ask "questions Veterans ask". Many are still there. They include: # of Gulf era vets with MS, Shotgun vaccinations overwhelming immune systems, exposure to the depleted uranium ammunition that Ships working parties ALL got their hands on at one time or another. Doc's tried to tell me only the dust from fragmented exploded shells was bad. (I smell a rat), and of course some kind of viral or parasite exposure in those particular parts of the world.


Am so glad that you have asked such questions! I will look for them. Here is the URL for others, should they wish to read too:

http://www.va.gov/ms/

Because of the then and nows (there was none in the Faroe Isles); I just can't adhere to various conspiracy theories of germ warfare. Yet, because so much really does point to infectious causation; does research really need to be complicated beyond necessity in so many other directions?


Outlawbiker wrote:If you check out that VA website, one thing that rings through all the "experts" replies was this: We have no proof linking military service with MS! Same out of the DOD.


Wonder if you posted the URL for this site, there, if it would be deleted? If not, perhaps Arron would create a forum for Vets. :)


Outlawbiker wrote:The fact that I wasn't exposed to the Sarin, oil well fires etc. and only "came down" with MS screams volumes for the even more unfortunate brothers and sisters who were exposed to those on top of it and came back with ALS!!


My best guess is that all such things exacerbate/make one susceptible to infection. ALS really is the absolute worst!

Can't imagine holding as critical a job, as you did as a soldier, only to be stricken with this damned disease. Great that you are able to ride, in spite of it all! :)

--Minai
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:26 pm

Hi Outlawbiker,
I'm sorry that I can't add more, other than to echo Minai in that I appreciate your service to our country and I share your concerns and questions.
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Postby MSresearcher » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:11 pm

Reference my post earlier


Another fact: Veterans diagnosed with MS within 7 years of the discharge date qualify for a "Service Connected" disability at least at the 30% level.

Actions speak louder than words. The connection has already been made between MS and service in the armed forces.
This tells me there is a link and they know what it is. For reasons we can only imagine, it has still been kept secret. These new articles may be a precursor to sharing what that is.

The VA MS Specialist I had would take blood for "Research" purposes and avoided conversation when asked "What type of research" he changed the subject and continued with his examination.

I would imagine that a disease of the "Immune system" would make sense to me that Immunologists would have taken the lead from Neurologists years ago when medicine finally came to that conclusion.

I sure hope this answers that question[/b]
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Postby Outlawbiker » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:04 am

MSresearcher wrote:Reference my post earlier

The VA MS Specialist I had would take blood for "Research" purposes and avoided conversation when asked "What type of research" he changed the subject and continued with his examination.

I sure hope this answers that question[/b]




I worked for the Veterans Administration for 10 years and out of that time also worked with Doctors conducting research studies with Vet's being treated for Hep C. There are standard protocols for ANY TYPE OF RESEARCH including extensive "informed consent" paperwork done in triplicate (more in most cases). I find it questionable that you had blood drawn without being informed what it was for. I have an annual inpatient multi-specialty evaluation at the VAMC in Syracuse where an array of testing is done to evaluate and track the progression of this disease. Bloodwork is important especially with the various medication prescribed for folks like us with MS.

If you truly believe that your blood was taken without your expressed written consent (related to research) and not the usual battery of bloodwork done (Chem 7, LFT's, CBC/diff,Lipid profile, PSA for males of certain age, stool guiac, UA, 24 hr UA with creatinin clearence etc.)

You have every right to ask and not give in without a satisfactory answer. You also have the right to refuse to participate in a study. If you are troubled about that situation and just "let it go" and claim there's a conspiracy going on....... that too is your right I suppose. I just find that particular statement suspect.

Whenever there are extensive delays in confirmations of illness' related to DoD or other gov't service, the root is $$. Draw it out long enough and those affected will be long gone. Keep trying to limit release of information for as long as possible to further slow the private sectors abilities to make connections. Then after there is no way to defend those practices, admit that "maybe" there "might" be some connection although now "we need to do extensive studies" for at least ten more years before we come out with a more accurate response......( meaning more time to not bleed all that $$ it knows it will cost after all is said and done. Let's not forget "Agent Orange".
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Postby MSresearcher » Tue Jun 12, 2007 3:18 pm

I appreciate your response. I guess my communication was unclear (it wouldn't be the first time :oops: )

The VA had my full authorization to have my blood for research when the question of the details of the specific research came up my doctor avoided the questions I don't know why maybe he was trying to get to another patient and wanted to avoid a lengthy discussion

I was responding to the statement on the VA site that claims no connection to MS and the Gulf war.

Perhaps it was something else with military involvement that allows us vets who got MS after service to receive a lifetimes worth of compensation.

My point was that there is a connection to the military and MS why else would they allow for benefits called "service connected"

Thats what I meant by saying the connection has already been made. Vets are already receiving benefits for MS. Why the argument?
[/u]
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Um....

Postby Outlawbiker » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:41 am

No argument, just like you said, You came across differently. Glad you so eloquently clarified what you meant.

From what I've been able to learn (through Paralyzed Veterans of America) is that a congressman at one point in time had a child (can't remember if it was son or daughter) who was diagnosed with MS after having been in the military. VA denied claims for service connection and then PRESTO! The 7 year presumption rule appeared!

Did I misunderstand something on here I read that said it was now 10 years? Or is that and the NO time limit just something still "in process" before even being voted on by our illustrious reps in D.C. ?
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Belated .

Postby Outlawbiker » Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:51 am

Thanks for the kind words and great information shared by Lyon and Minai. Felt great to see in writing things I've suspected, felt, and learned over my dealings with DoD, the VBA, and MS! Splitting hairs is the name of the game with gov't to avoid massive losses of $$ (at least until "their" terms are up and they're out from under the microscope. Kinda like the war in... Oh, nevermind. Think I'll go for a ride now! :? )
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Postby MSresearcher » Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:37 pm

Thanks for sharing the info regarding the congressman's son/daughter. Now that seems to make sense. Forgive me for once again assuming they had found a cause. On the outside I think its an easy conclusion to come to for me. You know what they say about assumptions. I find that I am the one that makes an ass of myself more than anyone else. :D
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Plenty for inference

Postby mormiles » Thu Jul 26, 2007 6:16 pm

Hi vets. Thanks from me also for your military service. You will be interested in what this scientist has to say about military vaccinations: http://autismmedia.org/haley1aw.html. The continuation of his talk is also worth listening to, as it is packed with inferential information. See http://autismmedia.org/media2.html.
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Re: Plenty for inference

Postby Outlawbiker » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:40 pm

mormiles wrote:Hi vets. Thanks from me also for your military service. You will be interested in what this scientist has to say about military vaccinations: http://autismmedia.org/haley1aw.html. The continuation of his talk is also worth listening to, as it is packed with inferential information. See http://autismmedia.org/media2.html.


Awww, shucks......... it was nothing (I think).

I'm going to check out those links you've provided.

Chew on this I just got in my email from Military.com:

My Account | Logout Get the Military.com Toolbar




Possible Link Between Multiple Sclerosis, Gulf War

Week of July 30, 2007

The National Multiple Sclerosis Society is keeping an eye on military veterans, especially those who served in the first Persian Gulf War and have since been diagnosed with the debilitating neurological disease because there appears to be an increased risk for multiple sclerosis in combat veterans. The strongest evidence comes from a 2005 European Neurology study showing that from 1993 to 2000 -- the years following the first Gulf War -- the rate of MS among Kuwaitis more than doubled. For more information on multiple sclerosis, visit the National Multiple Sclerosis Society's website.
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Postby mom10789 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 4:00 am

at the VA ms clinics do they push crab drugs
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Postby Outlawbiker » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:58 pm

mom10789 wrote:at the VA ms clinics do they push crab drugs


Not sure what you mean by "push". VA does provide meds for Veterans including C.R.A.B. I get all my meds through VA. I don't know how I could have managed without the VA, my monthly med bills easily top $3500-$4000 !

Non service connected Vets get a pretty good discount on meds depending on their income, private insurance coverege or lack of it etc. Some don't even have to make a copay. If you're Service connected at least 50% , I believe copayments are waived too but it also depends on whether or not you have private health coverage (example; spouses ins from work or coverage from your own employment.)

Don't hold me to the above, it's just from my own personal experience of starting out as a non SC young Vet fresh out of the Navy without ins. To over the course of time (a Looooooooooong time) of going from a 0% non compensable SC on through to the 70% compensable for MS and secondary conditions as a result of it. I had filed my very first claim in '95, it took ten years to get to the above!!
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Postby Minai » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:18 pm

Hey Vets,

Just received this url via my military e-mail:

http://www.millenniumcohort.org/index.php

Do you think it worth participating in?
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Postby Outlawbiker » Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:40 pm

Minai wrote:Hey Vets,

Just received this url via my military e-mail:

http://www.millenniumcohort.org/index.php

Do you think it worth participating in?



I'm not sure. Every time I see something like this that was initiated by the DoD first smells rotten to me. It seems to me that they've always done things to avoid accountability and save $$ rather than legitimately attempting to care for their "pawns" after they've been used.

IMHO
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