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I'm not sure if this was discussed somewhere else at some point. But, I'm wondering how the virus theory fits in with the immune suppressant medications MSers take. What I mean is -- if MS were caused by a virus, would taking DMDs (or even chemo-type drugs that kill the immune system) allow this virus to run rampant in our bodies thereby making us even worse? Or do retroviruses work differently? Any ideas?

ikulo wrote:I'm not sure if this was discussed somewhere else at some point. But, I'm wondering how the virus theory fits in with the immune suppressant medications MSers take. What I mean is -- if MS were caused by a virus, would taking DMDs (or even chemo-type drugs that kill the immune system) allow this virus to run rampant in our bodies thereby making us even worse? Or do retroviruses work differently? Any ideas?

Virus elevate MMP-9s --> they (mmp-9s) eat holes in BBB Blood Brain Barrier -->they enter brain and eat Myelin!!!

Many things lower MMP-9s --Interferon beta, steroids, antibiotics, chemo drugs many flavonoids. I have posted a HUGE amount on this FINAL stage of the Inflammatory MS stage destruction of myelin.

jackD

But my question is this... the body's immune system is designed to protect the body from viruses. But if the immune system has been shut down with chemo, wouldn't this allow the hypothetical "MS Virus" to replicate and do further damage? maybe viruses are killed by different immune cells? hm.

ikulo wrote:But my question is this... the body's immune system is designed to protect the body from viruses. But if the immune system has been shut down with chemo, wouldn't this allow the hypothetical "MS Virus" to replicate and do further damage? maybe viruses are killed by different immune cells? hm.

Sorry - there is NO MS VIRUS!

What happens is that for an unfortunate few, getting exposed to a series of some very common viruses causes an overeaction of our immune system and generation of some very nasty "self-defense-forces" which results in myelin/axon/neuron damage - primarily by MMP-9s.

Thus reducing the IMMUNE SYSTEM or just some key components of the immune system really helps reduce the resulting damage.

jackD

Hi Ikulo,
The interferon-betas may actually help fight viral infection. This document from the FDA on Avonex states the following...

AVONEX@ has a specific activity of approximately 200 million international units of antiviral activity per mg; 30 mcg of AVONEX@ contains 6 million IU of antiviral activity.

Interferons are a family of naturally occurring proteins and glycoproteins that are produced by eukaryotic cells in response to viral infection and other biological inducers. Interferon beta, one member of this family, is produced by various cell types including fibroblasts and macrophages.

Interferons are cytokines that mediate antiviral, antiproliferative and immunomodulatory activities in response to viral infection and other biological inducers.

This document from Penn State agrees...

Interferon Beta is a cytokine produced by a wide variety of cells; a host cell encountering Interferon Beta becomes much less likely to be infected by a virus.

Bryan Grenfell and collaborators have now investigated how Interferon Beta can affect the spatial spread of viral infections within a host.

Using an in vitro experimental system, the researchers inoculated monolayers of host cells with Herpes simplex virus 1 (pictured).

• The virus killed some cells; daughter virions then moved to infect nearby cells. Thus, plaques of dead host cells formed.
• The growth of the plaques was eventually halted and reversed as the host cells began to produce Interferon Beta.
• The maximal area of the plaque and the time to recover depended on the quantity of virus in the inoculum and on the amount of Interferon Beta in the system.

The researchers produced a simple mathematical model that described the observed experimental data. This is one of the first models of within-host spatial interactions between viruses and cytokines.

NHE

There once was a bunch of biochemists who could not get some viruses to grow in one particular beaker and decided to find out why.

Appears it had not been properly cleaned. After a little more research they discoverd a residue from some earlier project that was causing the viruses not to grow.

They called that interferring stuff - Yep! You guessed it!! INTERFERON.

So it is not big a shock to find out that Interferon Beta has antiviral properties.

jackD

That's very interesting!! Thanks for clearing that up. This whole time I thought that DMDs (except for Copaxone) were essentially immuno-suppressants, but this makes much more sense. Guess I should go back and brush up on my dmd literature.

Just found this on wiki for interferon: "All interferons share several common effects; they are antiviral agents and can fight tumors."

If you happen to be research minded and a little weird then this "CYTOKINES INFO PLAYGROUND" will satisfy all your CYTOKINES info needs.

READ AT OWN RISK!!! WARNING!! DANGER!! USE CAUTION!!


http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=IFN%2dbeta

http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=MMP%2d9


Check out this page on NGF -Nerve Growth Factor

http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=NGF

The fact good old reliable Vitamin D3 causes our brains to produce more NGF Nerve Growth Factor came as a real surprise to me. Vitamin D3 also lowers MMP-9s.

Here is the exact quote from that page.. It is a little hard to find.

CLINICAL USE AND SIGNIFICANCE

Vitamin D3 and some metabolically active precursors are potent inducers of the synthesis of NGF at concentrations of 100 picoM. This may have implications for the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases with NGF.

The infusion of human NGF into brains of primates has been shown to prevent the degeneration of cholinergic neurons. It may be possible, therefore, to use NGF to protect cholinergic neurons in Alzheimer's disease which is characterized by a selective degeneration of these cells. Another possible application might be the treatment of diabetes-associated polyneuropathies. In experimental animals NGF prevents chemotherapy induced neuropathies.

This "potent producer of the synthesis of NGF" is another reason to take a LOT of Vitamin D3.

jackD

Thanks for the info JackD. I will definitely put on my research hat and read up on all this.

ikulo wrote:Thanks for the info JackD. I will definitely put on my research hat and read up on all this.

This concise statement of the nature of MS's Pathology is the best I have found. It is short and seems to be very accurate. It is only 3 pages long.

jackD

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/ms-two-stages.pdf
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This PIC highlights the main actors in both stages of MS.
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Using the above PIC I have tried to lower ALL, note ALL, those characters clustered together in the bottom left of the "Inflammatory stage" of MS.

1. Cytokines (spificially MMP-9s)

2. TNF-a

3. Interferon Gamma

4. IL-12

5. IL-6

With regards to the Degeneratgive Stage, I have tried to counter the "Excessive Glutamate" production that does lots of critical damage that results in signififient loss of mobility in the second stage of MS.

http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/brainstorm/br5806.htm

This involves "thingies" that protect neurons/axons from this kind of Glutamate toxic death as well as other "thingies" that reduce/interfer with Glutamate production.

jackD (AKA Braindead)

p.s http://braintalkcommunities.org/forums/ ... braintonic

(additional info on topic with some humor)

I will trade you some of my BRAIN TONIC for some of your WOW GOLD.


http://braintalkcommunities.org/forums/ ... rain+tonic

jackD (AKA Braindead)