Re: Gout and MS
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:54 pm
ah, tmj and gout, interesting. can you requisition - or recommend - bloodwork for this patient?
having a scout around.. first i started with a search for any deficiency in gout, documented in research.
found this:
Hypoxanthine-Guanine Phosphoribosyltransferase Deficiency in Gout
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=682912
so. this enzyme. wondered about its mineral connection. with tmj in the picture, i'd be looking askance at magnesium status. so i searched on Hypoxanthine-Guanine Phosphoribosyltransferase and magnesium, which turned up this study:
Human hypoxanthine guanine phosphoribosyltransferase. The role of magnesium ion in a phosphoribosylpyrophosphate-utilizing enzyme.
http://www.jbc.org/content/256/8/3671.short
very interesting. every day i get more impatient for full text access
now, i'm considering that people can get good results using potassium on gout, and I've observed this in person as well (even though there's a gap in the science on the subject, so we seem only have anecdotal reports to go on). thought i'd have a last scour for science but we're not quite there in terms of a proper study. when i specify potassium and gout in an article title, weber seems to be about it, for now. probably worth a review of the writing and citations - although more research is clearly needed:
Potassium Bicarbonate to Ameliorate Gout
http://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/4217
anyway. given the known interactions between magnesium and potassium, it's starting to look like we have an interesting little biochemical dance going on here.
i like this next article, even though the title is a little odd (to me 'refractory repletion' implies that no matter how low researchers dropped magnesium levels, that potassium status stayed stubbornly replete). just underscoring the mag and potassium connection:
Refractory Potassium Repletion - A Consequence of Magnesium Deficiency
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=615872
oh and here's this one again, just underscoring the possible magnesium basis for potassium depletion
The production of secondary potassium depletion, sodium retention, nephrocalcinosis and hypercalcaemia by magnesium deficiency
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196693/
now, on to the tmj connection. can we link up magnesium and tmj, it's certainly plausible. definitely something to at least try to rule out. here's an article i had my eye on recently for someone else
Serum nutrient deficiencies in the patient with complex temporomandibular joint problems
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446412/
"..Standard blood assays were performed for beta-carotene (vitamin A), folate, serum iron, ferritin, zinc, magnesium, and vitamins B1, B6, B12, and C. Each patient was deficient in at least one of these 10 elements, with an average of 3.3 elements. Some factors that may be responsible for the deficiency state include inadequate nutritional intake, malabsorption, utilization dysfunction, increased requirements, or drug interactions."
nice that it's full text, but lame that it's not a step or two closer to raw data. can't really assess the validity of their stats wrt 'low' 'normal' or 'high' nutrient status. nonetheless, across the board the trend is distinctly toward low values.. esp if we should actually be categorizing half or more of the 'normals' as low. especially re something like magnesium, where the 'normal' range is notoriously faulty.
i could go on about interconnections but it's too complicated, i can only deal with so much info at once in this editor!
very interesting when it comes to the alignment side of things. definitely see the connections btw biochem and tmj. somewhat relevant anecdote: i am currently in physio while awaiting knee reconstruction surgery. last time i arrived at an appointment my therapist confronted me indignantly: 'why are you limping!!' i hadn't really noticed the transition from normal walking to this limp, but explained it 'it feels like my knee gives a bit, and then my hip sort of shifts over as well.." so then it was off to the torture chamber to release my quads, and minutes later i wiped away the tears (kidding, mostly!) and out i walked straight as can be. so, muscular tension can certainly wreak havoc on the function of the joint. i suspect the TMJ is no exception. anyway for me, i'm going to prescribe a nice soak in mag chloride and see if i can get my tissue to soak up a little more mag that way. at least until i can find some more mag citrate (i'm maxed out on mag glycinate.. it gives me side effects :S )
basically in the end it looks reasonable for magnesium levels to be a trouble spot in both TMJ and gout, with secondary links to the potassium aspect of gout. so all in all, if you can get serum magnesium and potassium levels for this patient, i can provide the serum magnesium target, and i'll go track down a serum potassium target too.
and obviously, zinc and uric acid levels wouldn't hurt either a good starting point anyway.
having a scout around.. first i started with a search for any deficiency in gout, documented in research.
found this:
Hypoxanthine-Guanine Phosphoribosyltransferase Deficiency in Gout
http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=682912
so. this enzyme. wondered about its mineral connection. with tmj in the picture, i'd be looking askance at magnesium status. so i searched on Hypoxanthine-Guanine Phosphoribosyltransferase and magnesium, which turned up this study:
Human hypoxanthine guanine phosphoribosyltransferase. The role of magnesium ion in a phosphoribosylpyrophosphate-utilizing enzyme.
http://www.jbc.org/content/256/8/3671.short
very interesting. every day i get more impatient for full text access
now, i'm considering that people can get good results using potassium on gout, and I've observed this in person as well (even though there's a gap in the science on the subject, so we seem only have anecdotal reports to go on). thought i'd have a last scour for science but we're not quite there in terms of a proper study. when i specify potassium and gout in an article title, weber seems to be about it, for now. probably worth a review of the writing and citations - although more research is clearly needed:
Potassium Bicarbonate to Ameliorate Gout
http://www.webmedcentral.com/article_view/4217
anyway. given the known interactions between magnesium and potassium, it's starting to look like we have an interesting little biochemical dance going on here.
i like this next article, even though the title is a little odd (to me 'refractory repletion' implies that no matter how low researchers dropped magnesium levels, that potassium status stayed stubbornly replete). just underscoring the mag and potassium connection:
Refractory Potassium Repletion - A Consequence of Magnesium Deficiency
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article ... eid=615872
oh and here's this one again, just underscoring the possible magnesium basis for potassium depletion
The production of secondary potassium depletion, sodium retention, nephrocalcinosis and hypercalcaemia by magnesium deficiency
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196693/
now, on to the tmj connection. can we link up magnesium and tmj, it's certainly plausible. definitely something to at least try to rule out. here's an article i had my eye on recently for someone else
Serum nutrient deficiencies in the patient with complex temporomandibular joint problems
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2446412/
"..Standard blood assays were performed for beta-carotene (vitamin A), folate, serum iron, ferritin, zinc, magnesium, and vitamins B1, B6, B12, and C. Each patient was deficient in at least one of these 10 elements, with an average of 3.3 elements. Some factors that may be responsible for the deficiency state include inadequate nutritional intake, malabsorption, utilization dysfunction, increased requirements, or drug interactions."
nice that it's full text, but lame that it's not a step or two closer to raw data. can't really assess the validity of their stats wrt 'low' 'normal' or 'high' nutrient status. nonetheless, across the board the trend is distinctly toward low values.. esp if we should actually be categorizing half or more of the 'normals' as low. especially re something like magnesium, where the 'normal' range is notoriously faulty.
i could go on about interconnections but it's too complicated, i can only deal with so much info at once in this editor!
very interesting when it comes to the alignment side of things. definitely see the connections btw biochem and tmj. somewhat relevant anecdote: i am currently in physio while awaiting knee reconstruction surgery. last time i arrived at an appointment my therapist confronted me indignantly: 'why are you limping!!' i hadn't really noticed the transition from normal walking to this limp, but explained it 'it feels like my knee gives a bit, and then my hip sort of shifts over as well.." so then it was off to the torture chamber to release my quads, and minutes later i wiped away the tears (kidding, mostly!) and out i walked straight as can be. so, muscular tension can certainly wreak havoc on the function of the joint. i suspect the TMJ is no exception. anyway for me, i'm going to prescribe a nice soak in mag chloride and see if i can get my tissue to soak up a little more mag that way. at least until i can find some more mag citrate (i'm maxed out on mag glycinate.. it gives me side effects :S )
basically in the end it looks reasonable for magnesium levels to be a trouble spot in both TMJ and gout, with secondary links to the potassium aspect of gout. so all in all, if you can get serum magnesium and potassium levels for this patient, i can provide the serum magnesium target, and i'll go track down a serum potassium target too.
and obviously, zinc and uric acid levels wouldn't hurt either a good starting point anyway.