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MS Hug??
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:41 am
by lovebug
Does anybody have any ideas as what can be done to alleviate the pain from the MS Hug? Mine starts at the top of the ribs and goes all the way around to the back. Drugs? Exercises? Help...........
Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:14 am
by hargarah
MS Hug:
I have had this feeling for years....to the point I needed to wear loose clothes, because the touch of them against my skin would light up a fire!
There are two drugs - without which I would not be working today.
1) Amitryptalene - spelling might be off, or Elavil. This drug works, although it is considered to be old. It still hits all of the right neurotransmitters.
2) Lyrica. This drug is amazing, it does not kill the pain, it just changes the sensory effect. So the brain does not give the body the "pain" outcome, rather minor discomfort.
Hope this helps!!
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:32 am
by vivavie
hargarah,
Do you take those combine at the same time? Do you take them year long or only when you have a relapse/symptome flare?
I have chronic pain, worse since procedure, I have tried all the neuroleptics, anti-depressors for pain Cymbalta, etc... I am on heavy dose of painkillers combine with patches, next step is 6days at the hospital to transfert to methadone. Research shown good results for pain control but I really really don't feel like it...
I tried Elavil 40 mg/d (with hydromorphe and dilaudid). Last time I have tried Lyrica - 150mg morning and night. Are those low dosage?
My next appointment is next week, I am willing to try anything before methadone. I am not even sure I will be allowed across the border if I take that!?!
Thank you for your help!
MS Hug
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:07 am
by lovebug
I am on 600mg./day of Lyrica and 50 mg. Amitriptyline at night. Along with 4000 mg. Vit.D, 3 gel tablets Omega 3,6,9, 1/day B-100 complex, 1 baby aspirin/ day, 1 magnesium pill. So far no relief from nerve pain at all............ I am going to try taking Zinc today. That is `JimmyLegs` idea.
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:51 pm
by jimmylegs
heythere lb, just to clarify, what magnesium pill exactly? the form i mean, as well as the dosage elemental magnesium per pill..
also do you take the mag at the same time as vitamin d3? because that will make the d3 hog it all and you won't have any mag left for all the other things it has to do in your body.
MS Hug
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:09 pm
by lovebug
I take 1 pill/day of magnesium-100mg. at bedtime. Somewhere I read in one of your previous threads that mag. should not be taken with vit.D at the same time. So I am starting to take mag. at night and vit.D in the morning only. Any other suggestions?
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:36 am
by jimmylegs
hi lb, IIMA, which form of magnesium?
to answer your question: IMHO you need much more than 100mg elemental mag per day, more like at least 400. magnesium glycinate is best.
also, you may want to think about taking one dose with the d3, and one at another time - bedtime is good
MS Hug
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:18 am
by lovebug
Oh I forgot to mention that it is elemental magnesium. So I will up my dosage of it. Thanks again `Jimmylegs` for your input..........
Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:03 am
by jimmylegs
no probs
just remember that depending on the form in which the elemental magnesium is delivered, you may or may not end up spending the day on the toilet! magnesium glycinate absorbs best to prevent nasty GI side effects!
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:50 am
by hargarah
vivavie wrote:hargarah,
Do you take those combine at the same time? Do you take them year long or only when you have a relapse/symptome flare?
I have chronic pain, worse since procedure, I have tried all the neuroleptics, anti-depressors for pain Cymbalta, etc... I am on heavy dose of painkillers combine with patches, next step is 6days at the hospital to transfert to methadone. Research shown good results for pain control but I really really don't feel like it...
I tried Elavil 40 mg/d (with hydromorphe and dilaudid). Last time I have tried Lyrica - 150mg morning and night. Are those low dosage?
My next appointment is next week, I am willing to try anything before methadone. I am not even sure I will be allowed across the border if I take that!?!
Thank you for your help!
I take 100mg elavil/amitryptalene at night and 300mg of lyrica at night and 300 in the morning. I was on a much higher dose of elavil - around 200 - but gradually cut it down.
I am very surprised the patches work for you, as neurolgical pain does not usually respond to common pain killers, such as morphine.
Methadone is a last step and is very addictive - I would really think before going ahead with this.
Try higher doses first! The pain will never go away, just the sensation and signal to the brain will change from burning pain to uncomfortable, but tolerable.
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:54 am
by vivavie
Neuro and pain clinic doctors have tried all the neuropathic pills but not at high dosage or combine. That is why I asked.
I really don't want to do the methadone.
Thank you for your answer, I will asked to go back on Lyrica AND elavil.
I guess I will have to budget for a new wardrobe, I put on a pill a pound
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:44 am
by vivavie
Hargarah, I forgot to ask, why are you decreasing your elavil intake? any problems?
Jimmylegs, I have tried magnesium a long time ago without any benefit but since I have nothing to lose I bought some yesterday.
Q: could not find exactly what you suggested.
Magnesium citrate, magnesium lactate and magnesium gluconate....300mg
Malic acid...500mg
30ml twice a day
What do you think? how about that malic acid?
The other products had potassium and since I am on Coumadin, having problems to get therapeutic INR for 7 weeks now, I passed on those.
I do not mind a product that would help my bowels, once every 7 to 10 days for me!!! (I do take some natural supplement for that)
NB.: for 6 weeks after my liberation procedure I went DAILY!!! I always thought it was the pain killers but nothing beats good blood flow
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:08 pm
by jimmylegs
hi there
i have to go to fairly specialized shops to find the brands i use for mag supplementation.. one brand is carlson and the other is new roots herbal.
i looked up malic acid research and found this abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8587088
Treatment of fibromyalgia syndrome with Super Malic: a randomized, double blind, placebo controlled, crossover pilot study.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To study the efficacy and safety of Super Malic, a proprietary tablet containing malic acid (200 mg) and magnesium (50 mg), in treatment of primary fibromyalgia syndrome (FM).
METHODS: Twenty-four sequential patients with primary FM were randomized to a fixed dose (3 tablets bid), placebo controlled, 4-week/course, pilot trial followed by a 6-month, open label, dose escalation (up to 6 tablets bid) trial. A 2-week, medication free, washout period was required before receiving treatment, between blinded courses, and again before starting open label treatment. The 3 primary outcome variables were measures of pain and tenderness but functional and psychological measures were also assessed.
RESULTS: No clear treatment effect attributable to Super Malic was seen in the blinded, fixed low dose trial. With dose escalation and a longer duration of treatment in the open label trial, significant reductions in the severity of all 3 primary pain/tenderness measures were obtained without limiting risks.
CONCLUSIONS: These data suggest that Super Malic is safe and may be beneficial in the treatment of patients with FM. Future placebo-controlled studies should utilize up to 6 tablets of Super Malic bid and continue therapy for at least 2 months.
so, 6 tablets twice a day means they were dosing some subjects with up to 600mg of magnesium and up to 2400mg malic acid each day. it seems that 2400mg is also considered the upper end of the recommended range for malic acid intake per day (1200-2400mg)
found this too:
http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/fdi ... study.html
a nice little non-sciency read
good luck! i hope you can get some bloodwork to determine your serum mag levels and see if they're at least 0.91 mmol/L! if they are, and you still have problems, then it's time to investigate in a little more detail.
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:54 am
by vivavie
Thank you very much Jimmy for your answer and to have taken the time to do that research! I really appreciate it
S
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:45 am
by jimmylegs
no worries v!