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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 1:25 pm
by Lyon
oo

An exchange of ideas

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:51 pm
by lyndacarol
Although some believe they know the cause of their MS, I do not (I only look for possibilities.); I only throw my ideas out there and welcome kind comments and suggestions from all. I don't take offense easily and I appreciate your thoughts, Lyon. I, too, see this site as a place to exchange ideas, to share frustrations, and perhaps to contribute to progress in this awful disease.

Concerning type 1 diabetes--we have heard that there is often a connection with MS, as you describe, Lyon (I was surprised by the low prevalence of type 1 in MSers.). You would be interested in this passage from the paper, "Insulin resistance, inflammation, and cognition in Alzheimer's Disease: Lessons for multiple sclerosis," (found only with the help of Viper and referenced above):

"In this review, we also asked how insulin abnormalities may relate to understanding and treating MS. MS increases the risk for type 1 diabetes mellitus; however, the low prevalence of type 1 diabetes in MS (~1-3%), limits the potential influence of this particular insulin abnormality to a small proportion of MS patients. In contrast, type 2 diabetes is common in the general population, and therefore, it is likely that many older MS patients are at risk for type 2 diabetes. This raises three questions for future studies. First, what is the prevalence of type 2 diabetes among patients with MS, expecially, older MS patients? Second, are there factors in MS, such as limited physical exercise, that may increase the risk for insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes? Third, does the co-occurrence of MS and insulin resistance or type 2 diabetes modify the extent or pattern of cognitive deficits observed in MS alone? In addition to the potential risk for developing type 2 diabetes, relapsing-remitting MS patients frequently are treated with intravenous corticosteroids, which induce reversible insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and memory impairment. Future studies are needed to characterize the long-term effects of chronic exposure to methylprednisolone on cognition."

gwa--you may be interested in the passage above as well, since you follow a low carb diet and wrote: "If a person wants to eliminate insulin resistance, eat no carbs or low carbs and a lot of insulin won't be released unless too much protein is consumed. "

I also follow low carb, have a normal blood sugar level, but have high insulin levels (If tested, I'll bet your insulin would be high, too.). I think my pancreas simply malfunctions and secretes too much all the time (not just in response to high glucose.)

If only researchers would study the questions posed above, perhaps my suspicions could be removed! In the meantime, I appreciate your tolerance of my unconventional ideas. At least it gives me some satisfaction to express them; as a nonscientist, I feel helpless to make meaningful contributions, but I want to do SOMETHING!

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:29 am
by CureOrBust
I came across this tid-bit (and it is small) but this page appears to imply that b3 has some effect on insulin/glucose also. Read the third paragraph under "side effects and warnings"
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/niacin ... ent-niacin
Niacin can cause significant alterations in blood sugar levels and insulin. This has been a potential concern in patients with diabetes, although a recent randomized controlled trial reports that of 148 patients, only 4 discontinued niacin because of inadequate glucose control (doses of 1000-1500 mg per day in a controlled release formulation were used). Nonetheless, caution is advised in patients with diabetes or hypoglycemia, and in those taking insulin, drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Serum glucose levels may need to be monitored by a healthcare provider, and medication adjustments may be necessary. Although niacinamide is generally not associated with other side effects, it may affect insulin and blood sugar levels.

Actos (pioglitazone)

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:10 pm
by lyndacarol
I just posted the following on the Tysabri forum and, although the discussion concerned Tysabri and Diabetes, I think the information is more appropriately located here. So here it is!

The online McGraw-Hill entry defines Metabolic Syndrome: "Starting in the 1960s and 1970s, researchers began to document a clustering of the elements of cardiovascular risk in certain patients. It wasn't until 1988 that a unifying cause--insulin resistance--was proposed and the term syndrome X applied. After several name changes over the past two decades, including the term diabesity used in lay publications, the name became metabolic syndrome."

At the labtestsonline site is "What is Insulin Resistance? Insulin resistance is a decreased ability to use insulin to transport glucose into the body's cells where it is needed for energy production. The pancreas tries to compensate for the cells' glucose deprivation by producing more insulin. The net result is elevated levels of insulin and C-Peptide in the blood along with normal or elevated glucose levels. Glucose, insulin, and C-Peptide levels may help your doctor diagnose this condition."

I think excess insulin may even lower glucose levels too low in some people to hypoglycemia.

Might that line from paragraph three, "...decreased ability to use insulin to transport glucose into the body's cells where it is needed for energy production," account for the fatigue associated with MS?

From book and brochure

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:32 pm
by lyndacarol
I try to understand the ideas around this disease, but I am NO scientist. Most of it is over my head. I keep thinking that maybe part of MS has as simple a discovery waiting as ulcers, Barry Marshall, and H. pylori(It did take 20 years for him to receive a Nobel Prize--just last year!) This hope was reinforced when I read on page 61 in The Language of God by Francis Collins about "Occam's Razor, a misspelled attribution to the fourteenth-century English logician and monk William of Ockham. This principle suggests that the simplest explanation for any given problem is usually best."

Then Lyon posted a link for the NMSS brochure, "The History of MS," on October 30. ( http://www.nationalmssociety.org/Brochu ... yofMS1.asp ) These thoughts came to me as I read it:

"Doctors of the time assumed the same disease rarely struck the same person twice because a disease “used up” the materials in the body it needed to live, much the way crops use up soil nutrients and die unless they are rotated."

Coming from a simple background, having lived on a farm as a child, I found the crop analogy comfortable. Perhaps this is the source of my simple-thinking.

Again according to the brochure: "At this time [first half of the twentieth century], scientists suspected that some form of toxin or poison caused MS. Because most MS damage occurs around blood vessels, it seemed reasonable that a toxin circulating in the bloodstream leaked out into the brain, even though no researcher could find a trace of it."

"Most damage...around blood vessels"--If scientists have known this for almost a hundred years, isn't it logical to start looking there again? (I feel ashamed that I did not know this before! This is MY disease--I should know the details of it! I have used the telephone-wire-and-insulation analogy too often!) How did researchers get away from looking at the circulation to all this complex "autoimmune" stuff? There certainly haven't been the big discoveries in that thinking that I would have expected if on the right track. Couldn't excess insulin "circulating in the bloodstream" start the cascade? I still think MS belongs under the jurisdiction of endocrinology and not neurology!

November 2006 Reader's Digest

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:10 am
by Lyon
oo

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:10 am
by ewizabeth
Lyndacarol,

You've brought up some good points in this post and this is a good discussion you all have going here, very, very interesting.

Lyon, I read about the link of type II diabetes and Alzheimer's. My Mom had both, so naturally, I'm very careful to watch my risk factors for developing either of these. I don't even like to take IVSM, because it creates havoc with my blood sugar and they have to give me insulin shots when I'm in the hospital having the infusions.

Insulin/Alzheimer's connection

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:05 pm
by lyndacarol
Thank you for your work to post the latest article, Lyon.

Some time ago I posted about Dennis J. Selkoe at Harvard who believes that an Insulin Degrading Enzyme (IDE) is involved with Alzheimer's. As well as insulin, the enzyme breaks down amyloid-beta (which is believed to accumulate in the brain as plaques which cause Alzheimer's), but the IDE is preferentially drawn to insulin. Excess insulin would occupy all the IDE, it seems to me, and almost guarantee Alzheimer's.

Mild Cognitive Impairment has been documented in MS; has anyone recorded how often full-blown Alzheimer's occurs in MS patients?

Recently (Oct 11) there was a Reuters article concerning work at the University of Chicago on this enzyme and how it may lead to new diabetes and Alzheimer's drugs. Given my belief in insulin's involvement with MS, maybe those same drugs would help us MSers.

I will find and post a link to the Reuters article for those interested.

Reuters article on IDE work at U of Chicago

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:22 pm
by lyndacarol
Here is the article, "Pac Man enzyme key to new diabetes, Alzheimer drugs":

<shortened url>

Another will have insulin test

Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:49 pm
by lyndacarol
I have mentioned finding a college friend who got the MS diagnosis in 1991. She has just written me that I have convinced her "to have this checked" and will ask when she sees her primary care physician the end of January.

As you know, I will be VERY interested in her results and will let you know, too.

"Diabetes breakthrough" article out of Canada

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:08 am
by lyndacarol
I was alerted to this posting of Stavros' in the Low Dose Naltrexone forum:

Diabetes breakthrough

By National PostDecember 15, 2006

In a discovery that has stunned even those behind it, scientists at a Toronto hospital say they have proof the body's nervous system helps trigger diabetes, opening the door to a potential near-cure of the disease that affects millions of Canadians.

Diabetic mice became healthy virtually overnight after researchers injected a substance to counteract the effect of malfunctioning pain neurons in the pancreas.

"I couldn't believe it," said Dr. Michael Salter, a pain expert at the Hospital for Sick Children and one of the scientists. "Mice with diabetes suddenly didn't have diabetes any more."

The researchers caution they have yet to confirm their findings in people, but say they expect results from human studies within a year or so. Any treatment that may emerge to help at least some patients would likely be years away from hitting the market.

But the excitement of the team from Sick Kids, whose work is being published today in the journal Cell, is almost palpable.

"I've never seen anything like it," said Dr. Hans Michael Dosch, an immunologist at the hospital and a leader of the studies. "In my career, this is unique."

Their conclusions upset conventional wisdom that Type 1 diabetes, the most serious form of the illness that typically first appears in childhood, was solely caused by auto-immune responses -- the body's immune system turning on itself.

They also conclude that there are far more similarities than previously thought between Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, and that nerves likely play a role in other chronic inflammatory conditions, such as asthma and Crohn's disease.

The "paradigm-changing" study opens "a novel, exciting door to address one of the diseases with large societal impact," said Dr. Christian Stohler, a leading U.S. pain specialist and dean of dentistry at the University of Maryland, who has reviewed the work.

"The treatment and diagnosis of neuropathic diseases is poised to take a dramatic leap forward because of the impressive research."

About two million Canadians suffer from diabetes, 10% of them with Type 1, contributing to 41,000 deaths a year.

Insulin replacement therapy is the only treatment of Type 1, and cannot prevent many of the side effects, from heart attacks to kidney failure.

In Type 1 diabetes, the pancreas does not produce enough insulin to shift glucose into the cells that need it. In Type 2 diabetes, the insulin that is produced is not used effectively -- something called insulin resistance -- also resulting in poor absorption of glucose.

The problems stem partly from inflammation -- and eventual death -- of insulin-producing islet cells in the pancreas.

Dr. Dosch had concluded in a 1999 paper that there were surprising similarities between diabetes and multiple sclerosis, a central nervous system disease. His interest was also piqued by the presence around the insulin-producing islets of an "enormous" number of nerves, pain neurons primarily used to signal the brain that tissue has been damaged.

Suspecting a link between the nerves and diabetes, he and Dr. Salter used an old experimental trick -- injecting capsaicin, the active ingredient in hot chili peppers, to kill the pancreatic sensory nerves in mice that had an equivalent of Type 1 diabetes.

"Then we had the biggest shock of our lives," Dr. Dosch said. Almost immediately, the islets began producing insulin normally "It was a shock ? really out of left field, because nothing in the literature was saying anything about this."

It turns out the nerves secrete neuropeptides that are instrumental in the proper functioning of the islets. Further study by the team, which also involved the University of Calgary and the Jackson Laboratory in Maine, found that the nerves in diabetic mice were releasing too little of the neuropeptides, resulting in a "vicious cycle" of stress on the islets.

So next they injected the neuropeptide "substance P" in the pancreases of diabetic mice, a demanding task given the tiny size of the rodent organs. The results were dramatic.

The islet inflammation cleared up and the diabetes was gone. Some have remained in that state for as long as four months, with just one injection.

They also discovered that their treatments curbed the insulin resistance that is the hallmark of Type 2 diabetes, and that insulin resistance is a major factor in Type 1 diabetes, suggesting the two illnesses are quite similar.

While pain scientists have been receptive to the research, immunologists have voiced skepticism at the idea of the nervous system playing such a major role in the disease. Editors of Cell put the Toronto researchers through vigorous review to prove the validity of their conclusions, though an editorial in the publication gives a positive review of the work.

"It will no doubt cause a great deal of consternation," said Dr. Salter about his paper.

The researchers are now setting out to confirm that the connection between sensory nerves and diabetes holds true in humans. If it does, they will see if their treatments have the same effects on people as they did on mice.

Nothing is for sure, but "there is a great deal of promise," Dr. Salter said.

© (c) CanWest MediaWorks Publications Inc.


<shortened url>

I am excited by the attention on the pancreas and mention of Dr. Hans Michael Dosch's 1999 paper which concluded, "there were surprising similarities between diabetes and multiple sclerosis...."

Since I think this news is appropriate to this thread, I am repeating the posting here, with much thanks to Stavros for the initial posting and with much thanks to another here who drew it to my attention.

I am excited by this research discovery, can you tell?

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:26 am
by Chris55
I completely "stop" an incurable disease (intersistial cystitis) with nothing but supplements/diet changes. There is no real effective treatment and the cause is unknown. Some do suspect "autoimmunity". After all of my reading/research, I do not believe in autoimmunity diseases, i.e., the immune system attacks the body for no known reason. I believe it is a great "misc." diagnosis. JMO.

My episodes of IC seem to occur when I undergo a severe diet change. Since I refuse to live with this disabling disease, I tried everything I could get my hands on! The diet/supplements are like a miracle drug.

For those with MS, I believe diet is indeed critical. It's a matter of finding what is best for you.

Astaxanthin-insulin connection?

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:07 pm
by lyndacarol
The following is taken from a General Discussion posting on October 17, 2006, in which I responded to Minai concerning zeaxanthin:

"A friend with an MS diagnosis sent me info on a product she had used and thought it had improved her situation. Among many elements in the product description (most coming from the sea--seaweed) was astaxanthin. Is this the part that helped her?

Then on Sep 11, 2006, Reuters carried an article that a Japanese researcher, Dr. Kazuo Miyashita, from Hokkaido University found that rats and mice fed brown seaweed, also known as wakame, lost weight and expressed a protein that led to regulation of metabolism. The key compound was called fucoxanthin.

The article stated, "Miyashita and colleagues also found that fucoxanthin has 'strong' anti-diabetes effects by promoting the synthesis of DHA in the liver."


Now, I have no background in science; but it seems logical that the word similarities would indicate that these two are related to zeaxanthin. Is it possible that the improvements you observed are connected to the zeaxanthin, not the lutein at all?

For those who don't know me--I believe there is a connection between MS and excess insulin. A connection between MS and diabetes has been established. Maybe all these things are related through the pancreas.

By the way, if brown seaweed is the answer, I hope it comes in a capsule--I tried an Asian soup with wakame and it tasted AWFUL!"

_______
Next, the following on astaxanthin comes from page 10-11 in the book by Nicholas Perricone, M.D., 7 Secrets to Beauty, Health, and Longevity.
"Astaxanthin, The Multifunctional Antioxidant

Astaxanthin is a unique and multitalented antioxidant. It is also one of the reasons for wild salmon's status as a leading superstar in the realm of anti-aging foods. However, it is also important to take astaxanthin as a nutritional supplement to ensure optimum benefits.

Astaxanthin has the ability to protect the cell membrane from free radicals also known as reactive oxygen species, or ROS, including the most damaging of all, the singlet oxygen.
Carotenoids in general, and astaxanthin in particular, effectively absorb energy from free radicals and the singlet oxygen.

Astaxanthin provides powerful protection to the lipid bi-layer that surrounds our cells as well as the mitochondria and the nucleus within the cells. This dual function of protection is unique to astaxanthin and one of the reasons it plays such an important role in the protection of cells. Because astaxanthin can penetrate different portions of the cell, it protects all organs and systems throughout the body. This broad-based protection is the foundation for the multifunctional benefits that have become associated with astaxanthin and its anti-aging properties. The health areas that have been studied include:

> Cardiovascular: Recent studies have indicated the tendency of astaxanthin to reduce blood pressure. The antihypertensive mechanism may in part be explained by the tendency of astaxanthin to increase blood flow. It is hypothesized by the researchers that this results from blood vessel relaxation and dilation. Also, in one of the studies, a 50% drop in the incidence of stroke was noted in the astaxanthin-treated group.
> Type 2 diabetes: A preliminary study indicates that astaxanthin supplementation may improve control of type 2 diabetes and inhibit progressive kidney damage. This study also supports the findings of an earlier study that indicates that astaxanthin may preserve pancreatic function as well as insulin sensitivity.

Other benefits include:

>Improved skin elasticity and reduced appearance of fine lines
>Eye fatigue (asthenopia) reduction
>Improved muscle endurance and recovery following vigorous exercise
>Reduced gastric inflammation and dyspepsia


It is important to note that all of these studies were performed using the AstaREAL brand of natural astaxanthin, which is produced from the microalgae Haematococcus pluvialis, a natural carotenoid pigment and biological antioxidant believed to be the world's richest source of astaxanthin, in fully enclosed and protected biosystems either in Sweden or on the Island of Maui in Hawaii. As with so many nutritional supplements, it is critical to know that you are getting the highest-quality, most vigorously tested -- for both safety and efficacy -- formula possible. AstaREAL is a trademark of Fuji Chemical Industry."


Now, as the resident "insulin proponent", I wonder if some of some of the effects of salmon-eating on MS could be due to, not only omega-3s and Vitamin D, but to the fact that "astaxanthin may preserve pancreatic function as well as insulin sensitivity."

More food for thought!

Pioglitazone and Neuroprotection in SCI

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:51 pm
by Shayk
Lynda Carol

I noticed “pioglitazone” mentioned in a couple of threads but I thought I’d stick this info in the insulin thread since pioglitazone is used to treat diabetes (I think). Anyway, in this abstract about spinal cord injury in rats, “pioglitazone” showed some potential neuroprotective properties.

Thiazolidinedione Class of PPAR{gamma} Agonists Prevent Neuronal Damage, Motor Dysfunction, Myelin loss, Neuropathic Pain and Inflammation Following Spinal Cord Injury in Adult Rats.
Both pioglitazone and rosiglitazone……significantly decreased the lesion size (by 57 to 68%, p<0.05), motor neuron loss (by 3 to 10 fold, p<0.05), myelin loss (by 66 to 75%, p<0.05), astrogliosis (by 46 to 61%, p<0.05) and microglial activation (by 59 to 78%, p<0.05) after SCI.

Pioglitazone also significantly enhanced the post-SCI induction of neuroprotective heat-shock proteins and anti-oxidant enzymes.
So, let’s hope the Phase II Clinical trial of pioglitazone for MS shows positive results. It seems like it has the potential to impact the MS disease process in several ways (at least in adult rats with SCI).

SCI might be relevant in MS, per the “inside-out” model described in this abstract.
the rather unexpected similarity between spinal cord injury (SCI) and MS where axonal injury, oligodendrocyte apoptosis and demyelination are all present. In SCI, transection of axons leads to delayed oligodendrocyte apoptosis with secondary demyelination…..

This implies that axonal injury could trigger demyelination. In this instance, lesions develop from the axon (inside) to the myelin (outside) (Inside-Out model).
It would be really nice if pioglitazone is therapeutic and neuroprotective. 8)

Sharon

Pioglitazone, diabetes, insulin,...and neuroprotection

Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:20 am
by lyndacarol
Thank you, Sharon. Yes, pioglitazone is used in diabetes. And yes, I think your posting was absolutely appropriate to the insulin thread!

I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence!!! It would be really nice!!!