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Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:04 pm
by desmalia
jimmylegs wrote:like gibson's west coast, or ucluelet west coast? i'm in on-scario
LOL, sorta halfway in between. I'm from Ontario originally though (most of us here are...).
jimmylegs wrote:you might be able to find an AOR supplier near you... their magnesium product is mag malate (as opposed to mag glycinate). found this comparison:
Glycinate Benefits
This form of magnesium is less disruptive on the bowels than magnesium chloride, citrate and sulfate, which can cause diarrhea. Aside from these considerations, magnesium glycinate is five times easier for the body to absorb than magnesium oxide.
Individuals suffering from malabsorption conditions like celiac and Crohn's disease will benefit from this form of magnesium. Older people, who are usually prone to magnesium deficiency, also benefit.
Malate Benefits
The malate form of magnesium is derived from malic acid, which plays a key role in energy production. Not surprisingly, magnesium malate will benefit individuals such as athletes, who would like to maximize their energy production, as well as those with musculoskeletal problems like fibromyalgia. People suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome or other circulatory and respiratory problems may benefit as well.
my mag glycinate product is by kirkman labs. don't know if they sell in BC though.
Wow, thanks! I will definitely have to look for Malate. I'm always on the hunt for anything that will help give me energy. We do have a pretty good healthfood store here that will order pretty much anything if you ask for it.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:13 pm
by desmalia
jimmylegs wrote:you might be able to find an AOR supplier near you... their magnesium product is mag malate (as opposed to mag glycinate). found this comparison:
Glycinate Benefits
This form of magnesium is less disruptive on the bowels than magnesium chloride, citrate and sulfate, which can cause diarrhea. Aside from these considerations, magnesium glycinate is five times easier for the body to absorb than magnesium oxide.
Individuals suffering from malabsorption conditions like celiac and Crohn's disease will benefit from this form of magnesium. Older people, who are usually prone to magnesium deficiency, also benefit.
Malate Benefits
The malate form of magnesium is derived from malic acid, which plays a key role in energy production. Not surprisingly, magnesium malate will benefit individuals such as athletes, who would like to maximize their energy production, as well as those with musculoskeletal problems like fibromyalgia. People suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome or other circulatory and respiratory problems may benefit as well.
my mag glycinate product is by kirkman labs. don't know if they sell in BC though.
OK, I found some that contain a mix of glycinate and malate and have started using them. Yay! On the down side, they're a very low dose, so I have to take a lot of pills (6 of these a day!!) to get about as much as I was taking before of the oxide, and I don't like mixing them with other vitamins. Still, It's a start. I will search more and see if I can get some that are higher levels. At least I know it's available.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:20 am
by jimmylegs
glad you found it! due to better absorption, less is more with mag glycinate/malate forms compared to mag oxide. you may not have to take so many pills. fyi i have found it pretty easy to take TOO MUCH magnesium glycinate without any GI symptoms whatever, and feel some muscle weakening. it's a fine balance - go by how you feel. what product have you got exactly? can you provide a link at all? i'd be curious to check it out.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:46 pm
by Scott1
Hi Desmalia,
I just came back to your post and reread it. Were you confusing what I said about Bicarbonate of Soda with Epsom salts? Bicarb is sodium hydrogen carbonate with the formula NaHCO3. Epsom salts are magnesium sulphate with the formula MgSO4. My suggestion was to drink a level teaspoon of Bicarbonate of Soda twice a day. By all means use the Epsom salts for a footbath. I haven't tried doing that.
Regards
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:27 pm
by desmalia
Scott1 wrote:Hi Desmalia,
I just came back to your post and reread it. Were you confusing what I said about Bicarbonate of Soda with Epsom salts? Bicarb is sodium hydrogen carbonate with the formula NaHCO3. Epsom salts are magnesium sulphate with the formula MgSO4. My suggestion was to drink a level teaspoon of Bicarbonate of Soda twice a day. By all means use the Epsom salts for a footbath. I haven't tried doing that.
Regards
Sorry Scott, I was actually just responding to jimmylegs' suggestion to take an epsom salt bath instead of just soaking my feet.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:30 pm
by desmalia
jimmylegs wrote:glad you found it! due to better absorption, less is more with mag glycinate/malate forms compared to mag oxide. you may not have to take so many pills. fyi i have found it pretty easy to take TOO MUCH magnesium glycinate without any GI symptoms whatever, and feel some muscle weakening. it's a fine balance - go by how you feel. what product have you got exactly? can you provide a link at all? i'd be curious to check it out.
Ooo, that's a good point. The last thing I need right now is added muscle weakness. I don't want to take too much. I've been averaging about four capsules/day so far and haven't had any problems. The bottle suggest 3-6/day. Here's the exact brand and amount:
http://www.canadianvitaminshop.com/Prod ... -MAGNESIUM#
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:51 pm
by jimmylegs
hmm yep so if one capsule delivers 67mg elemental mg, then 6 a day gives you what, up close to 420mg, that's a pretty decent daily amount.
arg BISglycinate, my nemesis. that one is too much for me! fine for others though.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:13 pm
by desmalia
Aw, really? Is that the one that gives you the heartburn?
Man, this has sure been a tough week anyway though. Jaw is still terribly tight and sore, though the neck and back are back to "normal". Extra fatigue this week too. I'm thinking of trying IMS in my jaw to see if that will loosen it up. I just started seeing a new physiotherapist for me knee, and he's doing a great job. I discovered he does the IMS, so maybe it's time to ask about that for the jaw. I know of a doctor in another city who uses saline injections directly in the muscle to get it to relax. The people I know who see him rave about the results, and it's covered by MSP. That will likely be my next course of action, though it requires several long trips there and time off work to do it.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:40 pm
by jimmylegs
if you're still really tight you could think about potassium.. important for muscle function, but the regular off the shelf stuff is often too weak (i've seen as low as 99mg ?!) but over the counter you should be able to get 600mg pills or close to that. recommended daily intake is up around 3500-4200mg.
fyi chard, mushrooms and spinach are excellent dietary sources of potassium
Mechanism of Hypokalemia in Magnesium Deficiency
http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/18/10/2649.abstract
Magnesium deficiency is frequently associated with hypokalemia. Concomitant magnesium deficiency aggravates hypokalemia and renders it refractory to treatment by potassium...
so if mag got you partway there maybe potassium will get you a little further
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:06 pm
by desmalia
Wow, thanks. I do take potassium pills daily, but they're only 50mg. Sounds like I need to increase that. I do eat lots of mushrooms and often eat both red or rainbow chard and spinach. But maybe that's still not enough. Worth trying to increase that some and see if it helps. I know potassium helps almost instantly whenever I have any problems with shin splints, etc. (which I haven't had in a couple of years, but still worth looking into.)
I do also get a bit of RLS every night, but it only lasts for a few minutes these days, thankfully. If my potassium is low, I won't be surprised to see that improve with increased doses. Thanks for the tip!
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:18 am
by Scott1
Hi Desmalia,
Your neck tightness and fatigue are issues many of us can identify with. I've managed to get mine well under control following the path I described earlier on this thread.
May I ask if your tongue is clear or heavily coated and do you have a constant metallic taste that makes food and drink taste less than perfect?
Regards
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:06 am
by jimmylegs
oh wow, it really makes me wonder what manufacturers are thinking, making 50mg potassium supplements!
according to nutritiondata, 1c boiled spinach gets you about 840mg potassium. so about 4 cups a day would get you up into the right range.. LOL as if!
spinach -
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/veg ... cts/2926/2
chard's 960mg K in 1c, boiled... crimini mushrooms get you ~325mg (1c raw, sliced)
when i scroll down world healthiest's food sources list and look for the high numbers in the by weight column, things like lima beans, papaya, canteloupe, kidney beans, lentils, avocados - those all stand out too...:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... oodsources
at the very least you have a tasty experiment ahead (and hopefully if needed you can also find something over the counter at the pharmacy)
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:31 pm
by desmalia
Scott1 wrote:Hi Desmalia,
Your neck tightness and fatigue are issues many of us can identify with. I've managed to get mine well under control following the path I described earlier on this thread.
May I ask if your tongue is clear or heavily coated and do you have a constant metallic taste that makes food and drink taste less than perfect?
Regards
It's clear and no metal taste. Why do you ask?
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:33 pm
by desmalia
jimmylegs wrote:oh wow, it really makes me wonder what manufacturers are thinking, making 50mg potassium supplements!
according to nutritiondata, 1c boiled spinach gets you about 840mg potassium. so about 4 cups a day would get you up into the right range.. LOL as if!
spinach -
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/veg ... cts/2926/2
chard's 960mg K in 1c, boiled... crimini mushrooms get you ~325mg (1c raw, sliced)
when i scroll down world healthiest's food sources list and look for the high numbers in the by weight column, things like lima beans, papaya, canteloupe, kidney beans, lentils, avocados - those all stand out too...:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?dbid ... oodsources
at the very least you have a tasty experiment ahead (and hopefully if needed you can also find something over the counter at the pharmacy)
Thanks for all that info. Well at least I am getting potassium in my food, so not having enough supplementation is not as big of a problem as it could be. Still, I will have to find some that have a higher dose.
Re: Head/Neck/Jaw/Back Pain - Have you had this?
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:12 pm
by Scott1
Hi Desmalia,
I asked because it can tell me something about your general condition. Not a fool proof test but those symptoms can be common to the neck tightness if the tightness relates to swollen lymph glands. It's certainly not a prerequisite to have it.
Regards