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The National Institute of Dental Research and Craniofacial Research are the same people who think it is OK to put mercury in my mouth. They made me very sick and I would not believe anything the dental industry or the FDA tells me. Do you really think it is a good idea to put fluoride in the body? They also have the research saying the flu shot is a good thing. You really think it is a good idea to listen to these government agencies? It is really sad what some people will do for money. Let the people who want fluoride eat the toothpaste and stop putting it in the water. Believe what you want but there is no way I would believe anything these government agencies tell me. Fluoride is a toxin.

Hi! pardon me, i wonder if fluoride is in everyone's drinking water and toothpaste then we all should developed MS. Don't we?

I share the same toxic environment when i used to go to the chemical lab in my college with other students, we sure had a chance to be exposed to the same chemicals, but why only me who developed MS?

I share the same drinking water and toothpaste contained fluoride with my family, but why only me who developed MS?

I share the same diet (milk everyday, rice as the basic food, etc) with my family, but why only me who developed MS?

Don't u think there's a possibility of another factor involved in the development of MS? What is it? Too much toxins? If yes, then all the people here in Jakarta (most poluted city) should developed MS, but the reality they don't, only few people here who suffered from MS.

Just my thoughts. Thank you.

Fluoride is not in everyones drinking water. MS is not a condition of too much fluoride. MS is a condition of too many toxins in the body. Doesn't matter if the toxins are fluoride, mercury, lead, foreign viruses, drugs or anything that is not suppose to be in your body. When you get more of the toxins than your body can handle you get disease. Everyone has different genes so that will determine the disease you get. The only way to get well is stop putting toxins in the body and give your body the vitamins and minerals it needs to repair itself. There is a lot of misinformation out there so if you do not get the correct information you will never get well. Stop thinking there is just one thing cause MS because it is any number of things that can mess up the nervous system. Stop listening to the FDA, EPA, ADA, and MDA because they make their money by keeping you sick. Their job is to make up studies which supports their position that things like fluoride are good for you. They do not want you to get well. Do you think if they had a majic cure they would give it to you and put themselves out of business? They fight as hard as the can to keep you from knowing the truth. The people in my country keep getting sicker and sicker because that is the system we have. Many have had the plug pulled on their lives before it was time. I am sure there is a special place in hell for these people who put the dollar ahead of human life. Before long we will not be able to afford this.

http://www.fluoridedebate.com/question01.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/033998_influ ... eness.html

agree there is no one specific cause of ms. i don't believe a one size fits all solution will ever be found. i do believe that each individual's set of genetic and environmental circumstances can converge into a set of signs and symptoms that can be labeled ms and that is too often the end of it. i think the answer for each person is quite personal.

do you mean fluoride is not *added* to everyone's drinking water? my understanding is that there are typically naturally occurring levels of fluoride in drinking water, and that according to research from the early 1900s, fluorosis can occur at levels above 1ppm. hence the colorado brown stain phenom.

we need the right enzymes to process toxins. enzymes are made up of amino acids (proteins) folded into 3d structures, with possible organic and or inorganic cofactors. proper protein folding calls on zinc in its structural role to make sure it happens properly..

touching on zinc and protein folding last year... http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... ml#p191558

(also dignan was here flagging the potential relevance of protein folding to neurological illness, back in 2006... but as of last yr, the news was not piecing the structural roles of nutrients in proper protein folding, into the picture. yet.)

so. let's say fluoride is not the specific problem, but a general inability to process toxins (and nutrients) in general, due to impaired enzyme function. let's say zinc is one of the things that could be a plausible common thread among widely diverse signs and symptoms from case to case. is it plausible that some people in indonesia have poor zinc status and that in some, related enzyme dysfunction could be a contributing factor?

Moderate zinc and vitamin A deficiency in breast milk of mothers from East-Jakarta
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9881883
when you get into this one's data, you find that the serum zinc levels in the mothers averaged 13 umol/L. distinctly leaning towards the bottom (suboptimal) end of the normal range.

Each area decides for itself wheither to dump this poison in the water. The fluoride they are dumping in the water is not the sodium fluoride found in nature but the hazardous waste fo the fertillizer industry. It seems to be better for industry to dump this in our water than spend money to dispose of it. Many countries around the world do not allow this. We need to wake up and join them. People with disease should not be putting toxins in the body. Fluoride is not an essential vitamin or mineral. It is toxic to the body.

http://www.h2only.ca/articles/fluoride/fluoride.pdf

yes. just clarifying re the statement "Fluoride is not in everyones drinking water."

want2bike wrote:Each area decides for itself wheither to dump this poison in the water. The fluoride they are dumping in the water is not the sodium fluoride found in nature but the hazardous waste fo the fertillizer industry. It seems to be better for industry to dump this in our water than spend money to dispose of it. Many countries around the world do not allow this. We need to wake up and join them. People with disease should not be putting toxins in the body. Fluoride is not an essential vitamin or mineral. It is toxic to the body.

http://www.h2only.ca/articles/fluoride/fluoride.pdf

I find it amusing that you dismiss Government research because "they or more interested in the money than my health" (sic), yet the reference article you share here to explain the dangers of fluoridated tap water is from a company that sells purified water! Now that's a conflict of interest.

Hi pardon me, my english is not so good, so i may interpreted your statements incorrectly. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm just trying to brainstorming and challenging the facts about this topic. I haven't got into the analytical phase yet.

want2bike wrote :

MS is not a condition of too much fluoride. MS is a condition of too many toxins in the body. Doesn't matter if the toxins are fluoride, mercury, lead, foreign viruses, drugs or anything that is not suppose to be in your body.

My question (brainstorming one):
1. Are you talking about fluoride alone or toxins in general involved in MS development?
2. Do you have any scientific prove (research/study) that MS is caused by too many toxins in the body or it is just your assumption?
3. Could other-known-disease (caused by toxin) met the same criteria as MS as McDonald criteria said?

When you get more of the toxins than your body can handle you get disease. Everyone has different genes so that will determine the disease you get.

1. I agree toxins is bad for our body, but we're talking about MS aren't we?

The only way to get well is stop putting toxins in the body and give your body the vitamins and minerals it needs to repair itself.

1. We who lives especially in big cities or city with many industrial factories have to face the toxic environment everywhere there's poluted air, poluted water, poluted soil. How can we stop it, putting toxin in our body?
2. Do you aware that too much vitamins can caused neurological symptoms as well?

jimmylegs wrote:

is it plausible that some people in indonesia have poor zinc status and that in some, related enzyme dysfunction could be a contributing factor?

I don't know the answer definitely, but may i share the facts that i see and hear about jakarta? (i don't have any statistic of my statements here)

1. Jakarta is the most populated city here in indonesia, why? because by my experience the traffic jam is overwhelming in every part of jakarta n it's always like that everyday, everyhour (maybe only at midnight it's lessen). So there's supposed to be poluted air everywhere that i shared with other people live here.

2. Jakarta is inhabited by many people living under the regional-minimum-wage (we called it UMR). Or may i say many poor people live here. Many people live with lack of access to healthy life (such as nutritious foods n access to medical care).

3. There's many different diseases suffered by people lived in Jakarta because of malnutrition (esp. in the poor ones).

4. Jakarta, as the capital city of indonesia, has many hospitals, but not all have the same standardized equipments and doctors. I don't know if every hospital here have a test of zinc level in our body available.

That's the informations i can share with you. Thank you.

The head scientist for the FDA found that fluoride was a hazard to the body. Since he did not agree with the FDA position on fluoride they had to fire him. He went to court and got his job back so if you believe in our legat system the FDA was wrong in firing it's employee for telling us the truth. I have posted enough information which should allow you to see the problem but you choose not to believe. Fluoride is not going to kill you today or tomorrow just like all the other toxins in our water supply will not kill you today. If you choose to smoke cigarettes they will not kill you today or tomorrow. If you put toxins such as these in your body they will make you very sick first and then you will die. Some people may choose to believe the FDA position and that is their choice. There was a time in our history when the FDA supported smoking of cigarettes. When science shows they are wrong they should change their position. I just recently found out about the hazards of fluoride and thought I should share the information with others. We all should have the right to decide for ourselves what to believe once we have all the information. Our health is determined by the choice we make in life. You may not be aware of the history of our medical system so here is a video explaining it. Pay attention to how the FDA takes positions on the people who want to cure disease. It is all about the money with these people. Life means nothing to them. In july 2000 an article in JAMA stated doctors were the third leading cause of death in our country. This is the medical establishment own magazine telling us the truth.



http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are ... the-US.htm

I don't know the answer definitely

sounds like the situation you describe would tend to support the research finding of poor zinc status.

sounds like the situation you describe would tend to support the research finding of poor zinc status.

But if your theory that poor zinc status would likely to involve in the development of MS, then should my country have the largest MS population?

The fact doesn't say so. I too really wonder what can cause MS in my country where there's so many malnutrition and lack of healthy life awareness even toxic environment everywhere. But why MS is so rare here ? Is it the sun that inhibits MS to develop here ?

I wonder...i really wonder what causing MS...is it food allergy? is it infectious agents? is it genes obstruction? is it poor blood drainage? is it really just imbalance nutrition within our body?
What is it that healthy person has and pwMS doesn't or the other way around?

In my big family, there's only me with MS and i know a cousin who had Lupus and that's all. I wonder if i have a gene to develop such an autoimmune disease, but why i developed MS and not Lupus?

Just my thoughts. Thank you.

i think the point has already been made that there won't be a cut and dry single answer separating the haves from the not haves when it comes to MS. there is not single test, no single culprit. very quickly, zinc is integral to so many different body processes, that issues manifest in widely variable ways depending on an individual's genetics, environment, lifestyle.. even the specific level of zinc compared to other nutrients is telling in terms of how illness may manifest.
there are lots of places here at TIMS to read previous discussions and start new ones. you may also private message me if you prefer. for now, let's leave this topic to the fluoride discussion.

Dear jimmylegs,

I agree with u. Let's discuss it in another topic. Actually your statement n question made me think of an answer to my own question :

"What is it that healthy person has and pwMS doesn't or the other way around?"

Like lyndacarol theory of insulin resistance, could non-pwMS has a resistance to any causal factor of MS (whatever it is)?

I'm gonna try to make a different topic in general discussion. And maybe you could assist and help me in my way of thinking.

Thank you.

found this in the course of chats about hydration and water options with thx; thought this would be a good place to relay

FLUORIDE-MAGNESIUM INTERACTION (Guest Editorial)
by A Machoy-Mokrzynska (Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Pomeranian Medical Academy, Szczecin, Poland)
Fluoride (J. of the International Society for Fluoride Research), Vol. 28 No. 4; November, 1995, pp 175-177

It has now been fifteen years since Marier drew attention to the significance of magnesium in biological interaction with fluorides.(1) The toxic effect of fluoride ion plays a key role in acute Mg deficiency. The amount of F- assimilated by living organisms constantly increases, and Mg absorption diminishes as a consequence of progressively advancing industrialization. Marier gives examples of such retention of both elements in plants (e.g. in pine and tomatoes) and in animals, for instance in bone tissue, blood and kidneys, with the last being thought as the most probable place of Mg-F- interaction.(1) Now, further facts have been observed, which throw a new light on the effects of Mg-F- interaction. ...

more at http://www.mgwater.com/fl2