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I'm tired of researching vitamins...multi's have proven to be a nightmare. Why do they toss in all of that herbal stuff??!! They mess me up! So I'm switching over to a calcium-mag-zinc-d3 combo, a b-complex, and vitamin e (mixed tocopherols). My current mag combo has mag oxide which hasn't caused me issues but isn't the best form for bioavailability. Any good ones out there?

(Jimmy...am I missing anything important in the new combo? I'm thinking about iron too...it increases uric acid (feno reduces it) and I'm mostly vegan so I could probably use it. It might drive down my (untested) veggie copper levels too. Thoughts??)

heya do choose a basic multi for the other trace stuff in there. including some iron.

I don't know of a decent balanced d3 w/ minerals. I know NHE used something blended to good effect. but I personally can't even do supplemental calcium so I wouldn't know of an option.

for b complex try to find one that has methylcobalamin for the b12.

with the vit e, it needs to be E8 complex (4 mixed tocopherols, 4 mixed tocotrienols... and watch the sources ie no dl-alpha tocopherol etc)

for magnesium, try to find magnesium glycinate. I think KAL supplements has one. even if you do find a good d3 combo with balanced minerals, have a separate mg product around. take the d3 product midday and the plain mag either about half an hour before dinner, or a while after.

just to throw a spanner in the works, also be careful balancing zinc, copper and iron intakes. testing would be awesome if you can get it.

last but not least.. fish oil or equivalent??

question. where will you be shopping?

Dangit jimmy! I know all of that stuff from reading your posts (other than I need a multi still). I want the easy answer! Lol. I can buy anywhere online or at sprouts/sunflower/vitamin cottage.

I don't want my b's in a multi as the copper/thiamine combo can make b12 analogues which block b12 absorption. And I don't want to overdo some of the "dangerous" b's. I've seen some just mineral supplements (but none with the good stuff yet), I wonder if that would do it. Blurg! It's too complicated!

Didn't you say veggies retain too much copper? I don't have another doc appt until July. I need to get another doctor for this stuff as I don't want to bug my neuro about nutrition too much. Are naturopaths covered by insurance? Who else would be good for this stuff? Would a nutritionist be too invasive and annoying? Lol.

well jeez soooREEE lol

you might be able to find a multi with no copper. I can't think of one off the top of my head. b/c i'm quite happy to have copper in my mix, to balance supplemental zinc.

I think the thing with veggie diets and copper might be in part just the low zinc intake. if you have average copper and low zinc status, you end up with a high copper zinc ratio (even when neither is 'high' of themselves) and that's def something to avoid.

as for the b vits. just don't take more than 100mg a day of b6.

and as for docs and coverage. where are you again?

Thanks Jimmy. I'll be sticking with my multi (with copper) and adding extra b-complex as even with the extra I won't approach 100mg b6 a day. Is it possible that I depleted the rest of my b-complex when I was super loading the b12 and just taking a normal b100-complex during abx?? My folic acid levels are fine but out of balance with b12.

I found some better mag-zinc-calc-d3 today and a vitamin e with mixed tocopherols (Dangit! Hubby picked it out while I was pouring over mzcd...missed the 4 mixed tocotrienols...back to the store). The only multi's with the right forms of vitamins/minerals have goofy herbs/probiotics added. ARRRGGGHHH! What do you take for a multi??

Nice 7 points on your regimen thread. Solid advice. I need to find a doc to work on nutrition with me but I'm not going to post my location. : paranoid smiley: Any general recommendations? I've seen a chiropractic place that does the nutrition stuff too but I'm worried they would be pushing gimmicky stuff.

hey there sounds good re multi and b-complex. i'm not sure how b12 works but I know that with vit E taking one part of the complex does put the rest of the complex out of whack.

glad you found a good d3 blend. give me the breakdown when you get a sec. keep trying re the vit e

as for a multi. this is what i'm using right now http://www.aor.ca/products-page/ortho-core/ but i'm not hitting the full daily amount, in part because i still take a few other things separately.

thx re the feedback. it's hard to give general recommendations on good help.. all I can cite is experience.. my own doc is a gem but I had a long history of needing nutrient tests as a vegan, and I backed up my first tests requests post dx with a LOT of science. I proved myself early, later requests have been a snap. in other cases, helping others, I have had to browbeat resistant docs - but if it's feasible to talk around all their objections, you can get the job done. i'm in a system where some things are covered by provincial care and some aren't. when I can't get the tests covered, I pay. if I found myself in a situation where I couldn't get a doc to req a test for me, I could do it at the naturopath and then pay for both the requisition appt and then the test. it depends where you are.

is this an option where you are? http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... esting.htm
i wish i could just go online for requisitions here :S but still have most of the costs covered too, of course ;)

might be worth checking out the chiro place, but just call them to find out exactly what it is they offer in terms of nutrition support.

Thanks again! Your multi has weird stuff in it too!! Why do they do that?? I can get those tests done here (thanks) but isn't there some full panel we can have done?? I didn't see one listed at the link provided.

when i roll out my own jimmylegs brand of multi, it won't have any of that stuff in it. ;D hahaha

i'd be sort of suspicious of a panel.. i like to pick and choose. esp if i have to pay. if you find a panel test available somewhere, make sure it has the right serum tests in it and i guess just do a cost comparison of the panel vs selected individual tests from LEF. also i would find out what LEF membership costs. those are some pretty sweet member discounts.

also i pm'd you a link.

Oops again. I am sooo not taking hubby and hormonal tween vitamin shopping with me again. I couldn't tell my head from my butt when I left the store. There is something discombobulating about watching your husband do a perfect rendition of Rainman, loudly reading signs and vitamin/mineral/essential oil labels as your goofball child melts down and belts out a rainbow of those strange tween monster laughs.

I found a calc-mag-d3 complex (no zinc) and decided to depend on the zinc in my multi and add extra plain ol' zinc if I should need it (not surprisingly, I have a collection of different forms and doses of zinc). The complex includes cholecalciferol d3 - 400iu, calcium hydroxyapatite, citrate, aspartate, alpha-ketoglutarate, lysinate calcium- 1000mg, calcium hydroxyapatite phosphorus- 500mg, magnesium oxide, citrate, aspartate, taurine, alpha-ketoglutarate magnesium- 500mg. I could not find a good one with mag glycinate but this one is better than what I have...I think (at least it's not just mag oxide).

Please hurry up and get those Jimmy vitamins in the stores. I'm sure hubby/tween would really enjoy the "jimmy" label.

ugh, cal:mag 2:1 .. k remind me how you plan to get some of your mag intake separate from the d3.. next time you plan a shop make sure the store has KAL mag glycinate in stock and add that to the daily routine.

so. zinc alone plus in multi balanced with copper, in the morning.
d3 blend at lunch. also a good time for b-complex (just don't take it in the morning)
mag glycinate before or after but not actually with dinner.

I don't have timing for the E8 complex. with a meal is fine.

are you by any chance purposely ignoring me about the fish oil? hmmmm??? all right if I want to get the jimmyvits line I had better finish up this last paper .. deadline looms large. ttfn!

Oooooo, a schedule! I like it. Thanks!

So, I decided I didn't like the calc-mag-d combo. lol You know that island for unwanted toys?? Well, I have an island for unwanted supplements. I should find a way to re-purpose them. I wonder what would happen if I ground them all up and spread them in the garden.

Here's the new plan.

zinc w/multi in am
b-complex and a viactiv (horrible but I'm rebelling) calcium (500), d3, k chew in afternoon
e8 with dinner
KAL mag glycinate before bed (400)

Is that better?

And yes, I *am* ignoring the fish oil thing. I ordered up algae epa/dha instead. When should I take that?

yea I have a couple bottles for the repurpose pile myself :S

ok re the new plan, almost. add another KAL mag glycinate taken with the d3 etc around lunch hour, perhaps best shortly before.. PLUS a second mag glycinate in the evening BUT let it get down past your stomach before you lie down. you've been warned it doesn't bother some people but it sure bothered me.

as for your pond scum you could take it with your e8 at dinner time 7:P lol ;)

Blurg. I hate calcium and it hates me. I was feeling pretty close to perfect and seemed to be getting even better. Then I took a viactiv calcium/d/k supplement (Complete with hydrogenated coconut oil! Seriously, who formulates these "healthy" things?!) and went down from there...buzzed up a bit (including tinnitus), got super sleepy for a few hours, and still have a hangover today. Today I put two and two together and realized that I was "perfecting" whilst on a calcium break, waiting for the new supplement to arrive...and my not so perfect days on fenofibrate occurred whilst I was taking a mag/calcium/zinc supplement. So, calcium is off my list. The only problem is, I have a killer craving for a tootsie roll now.

It's crazy that supplements can screw you up like that. It was only 500mg! I guess that's another problem...what a delicately balanced fragile flower I've become thanks to MS. I'm not only a *flower* now; I'm a flippin' orchid!

@Jimmy I'm thinking pond scum urps are much more pleasant than fish urps. How do you bear those??

calcium is off my list too. i just can't do it. In time the balancing act gets easier though.

I don't get fish oil urps you keep it in the fridge, don't have hot stuff with it, and take it before sleep so that even if an untoward urp got any ideas, you don't even know plus mine has rosemary in it. the ONLY time I ever get a faint idea of the stuff is that extremely occasional faint hint of rosemary.