This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Hi,

I have been having muscle fatigue or weakness and pain in my upper back from around midday each day. It appears to me that if I try and have a normal physical day, (no marathon, just house cleaning or normal work activities) all of my back muscles get sore and I must rest them. Unless I lie down for a few hours they continue to ache. Any use of my back muscles brings this on.

The problem is I work 9 to 5 and often feel I can't go on by 2 pm. It occurs every day unless I spend it in bed.

I don't understand what is going on. Physically my upper back is not out of shape, and I do not feel exhausted, yet my whole upper back feels like I had spent the day digging trenches. I am worried about my work. They are unaware I have ms and I would like to keep it that way.

Has anyone had similar symptoms and can they be treated with medication. I have been on gilenya for almost 2 years and my only other tablets I take are vitamin d, multis and anti NSAIDs.

I am not due to see my ms specialist till end of June. Should I let her know earlier?

I would be grateful for your thoughts or suggestions.

Welcome to our ThisIsMS conversations, Justintime.

You have asked for our "thoughts or suggestions." If you have spent any time here, you know my suspicions that excess insulin causes many, or most, of my MS symptoms. It is known that excess insulin thickens and stiffens the muscles; excess insulin leads to insulin resistance, which prevents the glucose energy source from entering the cells – your muscle weakness and fatigue would seem to fit this scenario. A change of diet (away from glucose-making foods to foods supplying more fat (which is an EXCELLENT energy source for the cells) may improve your situation – add eggs, nuts and seeds, fish oil, etc.

I suggest that anyone with the MS diagnosis ask for a "fasting blood insulin test." The insulin test is NOT the same as a glucose test. The optimal result is 3 UU/ML or lower. My insulin tests have always been 9 UU/ML or higher. If you ask your physician for this test, I hope you would share the results with me.

All the best to you.

Would you say the same thing for PPMS'ers?

Daisy3 wrote:Would you say the same thing for PPMS'ers?

I would, Daisy. I know that some people think the various forms of MS are actually different diseases with different causes. However, I think that people accurately diagnosed with MS (no matter the variety – RRMS, SPMS, PPMS,…) have symptoms resulting from the same excess insulin (although in different degrees and on different schedules – for instance, RRMS may experience remissions when the pancreas flickers back to normal production of insulin for a while; in SPMS, the pancreas has slipped to overproduction of insulin ALL the time; in PPMS, the pancreas is overproducing ALL the time from the very beginning).

For your husband, Daisy, I would urge that he start by asking his PCP for a "fasting blood insulin test" (as I suggested above to Justintime). Then, help him follow a diet that will not prompt production of increased insulin, which the body makes to handle any glucose in the bloodstream. Change to a diet that supplies fats, instead of glucose, as the body's energy source. (As the body becomes more and more resistant to insulin, it will produce more and more insulin, which is necessary to get the glucose inside the cell where it can be used for energy.) Fats are actually a better energy source because they can enter the cell and be used for energy without insulin at all. We have been misled by the "no fat or low fat" movement – we NEED fat. Two eggs fried in coconut oil is a GOOD thing every morning!

When the body is in this fat-burning mode (rather than the glucose-burning mode), it is called ketosis – a perfectly normal state. (This is NOT to be confused with ketoacidosis, the unhealthy situation often found with diabetes.)

Thanks LyndaCarol,

I will ask my doctor for that test.

I have been on a diet since Christmas, going from 15 stone to 11 and a half. My diet basically consisted of simply eating less and avoiding junk food. No biscuits, chips, confectionary, chocolate or soft drink. Whilst my diet has not focused so much on the right foods as you describe them, it has meant that I have far less sugar than ever in my history. I still have sugar in my coffee but that is it.

Your theory sounds plausible to me, so thank you, and I will follow up and let you know the results.

Justintime wrote:Thanks LyndaCarol,

I will ask my doctor for that test.

I have been on a diet since Christmas, going from 15 stone to 11 and a half. My diet basically consisted of simply eating less and avoiding junk food. No biscuits, chips, confectionary, chocolate or soft drink. Whilst my diet has not focused so much on the right foods as you describe them, it has meant that I have far less sugar than ever in my history. I still have sugar in my coffee but that is it.

Your theory sounds plausible to me, so thank you, and I will follow up and let you know the results.

Justintime – Although your diet since Christmas may not have completely changed your energy source from glucose (to fat), you have reduced the number of foods that will increase your blood glucose (i.e., "biscuits, chips, confectionary, chocolate, and soft drink"); therefore, your pancreas will produce less insulin in response the lower amount of blood glucose (blood sugar). The objective is to lower the amount of insulin, which you obviously have done.

By the way, insulin is also known as "the fat-storage hormone" – the human body needs insulin in order to put on weight. You must have been producing excess insulin at one time if you were carrying excess weight/fat (15 stone? The "stone" concept is not used in the USA; I am not exactly sure how many pounds that is, but from 15 to 11 1/2 is significant no matter what the units are.).

Hi Lynda,

I am in Australia and we havnt used stones or pounds since the seventies. I do know that 14 pounds is 1 stone. We use metric and kilograms here, but most people my age (50) are fine with either.

Thanks again.

Justintime wrote: I will ask my doctor for that test.

Thank you for explaining that 14 pounds equals 1 stone.

I have just one caution for you about the fasting blood insulin test: Because insulin degrades rather quickly, if the blood sample cannot be tested soon after the blood is drawn, the sample should be frozen. If it is not frozen, the test result will not be accurate.

lyndacarol wrote:

Daisy3 wrote:Would you say the same thing for PPMS'ers?

I would, Daisy. I know that some people think the various forms of MS are actually different diseases with different causes. However, I think that people accurately diagnosed with MS (no matter the variety – RRMS, SPMS, PPMS,…) have symptoms resulting from the same excess insulin (although in different degrees and on different schedules – for instance, RRMS may experience remissions when the pancreas flickers back to normal production of insulin for a while; in SPMS, the pancreas has slipped to overproduction of insulin ALL the time; in PPMS, the pancreas is overproducing ALL the time from the very beginning).

For your husband, Daisy, I would urge that he start by asking his PCP for a "fasting blood insulin test" (as I suggested above to Justintime). Then, help him follow a diet that will not prompt production of increased insulin, which the body makes to handle any glucose in the bloodstream. Change to a diet that supplies fats, instead of glucose, as the body's energy source. (As the body becomes more and more resistant to insulin, it will produce more and more insulin, which is necessary to get the glucose inside the cell where it can be used for energy.) Fats are actually a better energy source because they can enter the cell and be used for energy without insulin at all. We have been misled by the "no fat or low fat" movement – we NEED fat. Two eggs fried in coconut oil is a GOOD thing every morning!

When the body is in this fat-burning mode (rather than the glucose-burning mode), it is called ketosis – a perfectly normal state. (This is NOT to be confused with ketoacidosis, the unhealthy situation often found with diabetes.)

Can you start me off with a few meal time pointers? Like the Terry Walh diet you mean?

Daisy, you may find it interesting to read through the Diet forum (http://www.thisisms.com/forum/diet-f9/). There are threads there that pertain to the Wahls diet specifically; the Wahls diet is more strict and extreme than necessary, I think. However, many people find great help with the Wahls diet: there are 69 testimonials on her webpage (http://www.terrywahls.com/_blog/Testimo ... sclerosis/)

In my opinion, the objective is to reduce the insulin level; there may be several diets that can bring this about. I think this is inadvertently the mechanism of the Wahls diet. The following may be common to all effective diets because they lower the insulin:

#1 Remove ALL trans fats from the diet.

#2 Remove all sugar (including beer, wine, etc. which have sugar), remove all artificial sweeteners, including sugar alcohols (polyols) such as sorbitol, xylitol, mannitol, erythritol, lactitol, etc. (these sugar alcohols are "sweeter" than sugar), and remove white flour, white bread, white potatoes, white rice (which convert readily to glucose, a.k.a. blood sugar, in the body) from your diet. Raising the blood sugar level leads to an insulin spike.

#3 (as CaveMan suggested in a Paleo Diet discussion) Remove all processed foods.

#4 NO MSG

#5 Dr. William Davis in his book, Wheat Belly, recommends avoiding ALL wheat – refined and even whole wheat – not because of a gluten problem, but because of a problem with a protein called gliadin. He feels, "Today’s wheat may be dangerous because it greatly elevates blood sugar levels, leading to insulin spikes that cause chronic inflammation and excess belly fat (visceral fat)."

He has offered the recipe for his Wheat Belly Pizza (http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/wheat-belly-pizza) on The Dr. Oz Show. The link will lead you to some of his other recipes.

Any diet (for diabetics, for example) which will reduce blood sugar will reduce the resulting insulin spike. Eat simpler, less processed foods; go easy on the fruit because it will stimulate insulin. The objective is to reduce that insulin.

You may find it helpful to substitute coconut flour, almond flour/meal, or flax meal/flour in your favorite recipes which are low in sugar – these flours have no carbohydrates and, of course, have no wheat flour.

All the best to you and your husband.