This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

and it requires planning, as you would not want to walk the streets while you are in a flush.

CureOrBust wrote:and it requires planning, as you would not want to walk the streets while you are in a flush.

You could joke with people you just got back from a place with a lot of sun.
Or, that you are very embarrassed


THX1138

I'd say that if your walking improves a lot, you will be walking the streets... until the flush wears off.


THX1138

I'm currently CIS and only real symptoms (so far) area dropped foot that appears after maybe 40mins walking or 30 or so running. Guess what I'm looking for is whether niacin can help in reducing relapse rate (I've only had the one for now) and progression of lesions or general deterioration (I.e. More symptoms appearing). Is it helpful in this sense?

Thx,
Zjac

THX1138 wrote:I'd say that if your walking improves a lot, you will be walking the streets... until the flush wears off.

personally have no noteable symptom improvement during or after the flush.

zjac020 wrote:I'm currently CIS and only real symptoms (so far) area dropped foot that appears after maybe 40mins walking or 30 or so running. Guess what I'm looking for is whether niacin can help in reducing relapse rate (I've only had the one for now) and progression of lesions or general deterioration (I.e. More symptoms appearing). Is it helpful in this sense?

Thx,
Zjac

unfortunately, there are no trials with niacin in human MS.
there seems to be no interest in cheap therapies for MS ;)

Brm~I posted quite a lot of information on the inability of MS patients to properly degrade amino acids under this thread. http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 22806.html

Also, due to high levels of circulating "dendritic" cells producing proinflammatory cytokines as a result of the inability to properly degrade amino acids (they enter the bloodstream and trigger the dendritic cells), patients with MS have activation of the "kynurenine pathway". This is a tryptophan degrading pathway. It is being upregulated by the cytokines and rapidly degrading tryptophan and producing toxic metabolites. This is all on the thread.

sorry, I don´t fully understand what you mean.
the other thread is about vitamin b12 which is something completely different than niacin.

Hi Ursala~The thread goes through many different components of the MS disease process. The inability to properly metabolize vitamin B12 is just one component. There is also information on the activation of the "kynurenine pathway" in MS. The kynurenine pathway is a tryptophan degrading pathway, which produces niacin. In patients with MS, this pathway is rapidly degrading tryptophan and instead of producing niacin it is producing toxic metabolites that are very much involved in the MS disease process.

CureOrBust wrote:

THX1138 wrote:I'd say that if your walking improves a lot, you will be walking the streets... until the flush wears off.

personally have no noteable symptom improvement during or after the flush.

CureOrBust, I'm not so sure I did (initially) either; I would be sitting at the computer, not walking, and quite distracted by the redness, heat, and all around novelty of the flush. It seems quite possible to me that the benefits did not occur until after many strong flushes.

THX1138

Here is one study on the kynurenine pathway and MS. I think this may be the one I posted on the thread.

Int J Tryptophan Res. 2010;3:157-67. Epub 2010 Aug 25.
Understanding the roles of the kynurenine pathway in multiple sclerosis progression.
Lim CK, Brew BJ, Sundaram G, Guillemin GJ.


The kynurenine pathway (KP) is a major degradative pathway of tryptophan ultimately leading to the production of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD(+)) and is also one of the major regulatory mechanisms of the immune response. The KP is known to be involved in several neuroinflammatory disorders including Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, AIDS dementia complex, Parkinson's disease, schizophrenia, Huntington's disease and brain tumours. However, the KP remains a relatively new topic for the field of multiple sclerosis (MS). Over the last 2-3 years, some evidence has progressively emerged suggesting that the KP is likely to be involved in the pathogenesis of autoimmune diseases especially MS. Some KP modulators are already in clinical trials for other inflammatory diseases and would potentially provide a new and important therapeutic strategy for MS patients. This review summarizes the known relationships between the KP and MS.

Annesse, does what your talking about also explain the niacin flush improvements people experience

THX1138

Can I ask if apart from the "flushing" that the niacin provides, which from what I see gives temporary symptom relief from those with constant MS symptoms, can one also assume that taking niacin may protect from general MS degeneration?

I already take a whole host of supplements and don't really mind incorporating another, but I don't have constant symptoms (yet, I guess) and wouldn't be looking to take the niacin for the temporary flush effect, but more to try and prevent the MS from advancing. I haven't really seen clear comments on dosage (ideally to avoid liver damage) or any particular brands that people may recommend?

Would appreciate more info on this. Thanks all.

I have never found hard info to answer those questions.

I'll just mention a few things that happen during the flush:

1) Vasodilation. Obviously peripheral, but I think I had read that the vasodilation was internal also.

with # 2) and 3) I need to find the studies I was thinking of, maybe I don't remember correctly
2) FFA (Free Fatty Acid) levels were inversely correlated to the strength of the flush.
3) Mg ion concentrations were negatively correlated to the FFA levels.

yes...but all that happens during the flush, say for 20mins?