This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Hi thx,
I do Epsom salt baths sometimes and have some mag lotion. Love the baths...the lotion, not so much. I'll up the baths and dietary (have been lazy on that front lately) and continue taking some mag glycinate.

Having to fiddle with the zinc/copper/iron thing. Something's off after that vitamin c disaster...I'm better but haven't been able to get all the way normal yet. Thinking I might need to baby the ceruloplasmin for a bit before working on iron and zinc more with supplements (shifting focus to dietary sources for now). I guess ceruloplasmin degrades faster when it isn't bound to copper so it's probably suffering and that is causing problems with iron and zinc exacerbates it. Testing it out today...so far, so good after 200mg mag and later 2mg copper (really want to take my multi but think it will schmuck things up). At least I can get after the magnesium while I work on the ceruloplasmin. Hopefully, if that is the problem, it won't take too long to correct because my zinc and iron need help too! Arg!

It is important to stay well hydrated, especially when supplementing with Mg. This is so much more true when doing topical Mg treatments.

What ratio of Epsom flakes to water do you use

I have read that magnesium chloride is more effective than magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts).

New labs...I made it three weeks this time!! Can NOT figure out what is going on with tibc and ferritin...doesn't fit anything. I had decreased to 50mg iron 1x/day. Also, my zinc/copper is upside down. The zinc wasn't feeling good after my last screw up so I wasn't taking it...started again today.

TIBC 196 ug/dl norm 250-450 last test 247 (why would this go down when I supplemented less and iron/ferritin decreased?!)
UIBC 149 ug/dl norm 150-375 last test 149
Iron 47 ug/dl norm 35-155 last test 98
Iron saturation 24% norm 15-55 last test 40

ceruloplasmin 21.9 mg/dl norm 16-45 (this lab) last test 20.8
copper 88 ug/dl norm 72-166 last test 86
zinc 79 ug/dl norm 56-134 last test 87
ferritin 33 ng/dl norm 15-150 last test 37
RBC magnesium 5.5 mg/dl norm 4.2-6.8 last test 4.9

So, jimmy, scream at me if I am obviously screwing something up but I am going to switch to 25mg iron 2x/day, try to make the zinc work, and keep after the magnesium (moving up quickly! (don't remind me I didn't wash out)). I've added the occasional 4000iu d3, regular MSM, flaxseed/dha-epa, and b complex as well.

THX,
I have no idea what my epsom salt (thought they were all called epsom salts) to water ratio is. I have a big tub (circa 1983 funk-meister so I can't exactly find references to capacity) and dump in about 2 cups. I was using mag chloride but just ran out and switched to mag sulfate. I guess based on my numbers and pretty minimal oral supplementation, I should re-order the mag chloride.

Anonymoose,
I just wanted to get a general idea of the Mg/water ratio. Have you tried adding more flakes to the bath water ?
I used to put about 7 cups of flakes in a gallon of water for foot soaks; I tend to be kind of extreme though.
Remember to stay well hydrated with NON-R.O.W. and salt.

Wow thx! That's a lot of salt!! Probably won't do that...might mess up our septic system and I don't really want to order salts weekly. Lol

Jimmy legs...pernicious anemia has hit my radar as possible cause of low tibc. It probably isn't the cause as I've got b12 in multi and b complex but maybe I only absorb sublingual. Think there is any value in washing out on b's for 5 days and having them do this panel? (Stupid me just took sublingual b12). http://requestatest.com/celiac-disease- ... ge-testing The crp would show if the low tibc were possibly caused by inflammation too. Inflammation doesn't jive with my modest ferritin level but maybe that's because I'm going from iron deficient w/low inflammation to iron okay w/inflammation/new B cells.

Will it ever end?!

i'll have a look at it anon, but it might not be tonight - last eve of my trip

Ooo...a trip! I hope it's a good one.

I'm too impatient. I ordered that set of labs and an mma too. I'm doing it tomorrow am so I will end up with artificially high b12 but hopefully there will be some other tells (Mcv, mma, hct, crp, etc) to lead me in the right direction. I hate waiting for labs when something is obviously off!

Zinc still not feeling great. Think if I up my am copper dose and take zinc much later it'll stop knocking my copper around? Don't answer...I'll just try it. Lol

Safe trip home!

i am home! i predict renewed forum activity starting tomo

Yay! She's back.

The sun gave me that "lovin' feelin'" yesterday. Sigh. And I thought my calcitriol issues were a thing of the past. Kinda cool I had labs done hours before the assault though! Also cool that the sun works now for those of us around the 40th parallel. Get out and get your vitamin d!

All labs in except mma. Too much to copy here at the moment. Let me know if you want any other numbers. (Or the actual numbers)

Keep in mind I'd started supplementing 5000mcg b12 in addition to what is in my multi and b complex last Saturday. I missed Wednesday, I think.

B12 high @1296
Hematocrit and hemoglobin a tiny bit high
MCV towards high end of normal
Neutrophils a tiny bit high
Iron up to 51
Ferritin down to 27
TIBC up to 238

I think it may have been the b12 or...I'm dying. Lol. You?

Oh. Vitamin d 29.7

Anonymoose wrote:All labs in except mma. Too much to copy here at the moment. Let me know if you want any other numbers. (Or the actual numbers)

Keep in mind I'd started supplementing 5000mcg b12 in addition to what is in my multi and b complex last Saturday. I missed Wednesday, I think.

B12 high @1296
Hematocrit and hemoglobin a tiny bit high
MCV towards high end of normal
Neutrophils a tiny bit high
Iron up to 51
Ferritin down to 27
TIBC up to 238

I think it may have been the b12 or...I'm dying. Lol. You?

Oh. Vitamin d 29.7

B12 high @1296

MCV towards high end of normal

May I ask what that means ? and what is "normal" at your lab?

There is one big question I've had for a while:
Can one's B12 test come back fine (that is actually fine) like 550 and on up, but the person still have B12 issues, such as the B12 not doing what is should in the body

Hi THX,

From Wiki

The mean corpuscular volume, or "mean cell volume"(MCV), is a measure of the average volume of a red blood corpuscle (or red blood cell). The measure is attained by multiplying a volume of blood by the proportion of blood that is cellular (the hematocrit (or haematocrit)), and dividing that product by the number of erythrocytes (red blood cells) in that volume. The mean corpuscular volume is a part of a standard complete blood count. In a laboratory test that computes MCV, erythrocytes are compacted during centrifugation.

In patients with anemia, it is the MCV measurement that allows classification as either a microcytic anemia (MCV below normal range), normocytic anemia (MCV within normal range) or macrocytic anemia (MCV above normal range). Normocytic anemia is usually deemed so because the bone marrow has not yet responded with a change in cell volume. It occurs occasionally in acute conditions, namely blood loss and hemolysis.

Mine was 92 fl range 79-97

As for b12...the mma test might tell you if you are deficient despite adequate blood levels or, I guess, if it isn't "working."

I forgot to mention...my CRP is okay. .5 mg/l with a normal range of 0-4.9 There isn't a lot of inflammation going on...

Now that the dust has settled in my messy brain, I guess the only thing that matters is my TIBC and UIBC have come up into range. I just need to keep doing what I'm doing...maybe back off the b12 a bit in a week or so.

THX1138 wrote:There is one big question I've had for a while:
Can one's B12 test come back fine (that is actually fine) like 550 and on up, but the person still have B12 issues, such as the B12 not doing what is should in the body

A month ago my serum vitamin B12 test was done:

serum B12....... my value: 827 (standard range: 213-816 pg/mL)

I think I am an example of EXACTLY what THX1138 is describing – I think the B12 is not doing what it should in my body.

By jove, I think I've got it and it only took a year and a half to figure out (caveat: I'm always wrong).

I was herxing. I only hurt when I took vitamin d or got sun whilst I was taking valtrex. The valtrex must have temporarily shut down some viral activity, reducing my nagalase levels, allowing for greater macrophage production and the macrophages pumped out a bunch of calcitriol as they killed whatever there is to kill in me (lyme and co-infections are the suspects of the day).

A partial explanation of what I'm on about...scroll down to serum nagalase section if you don't want to trudge through it all.
http://www.townsendletter.com/Oct2012/newera1012.html

That's the only thing I can come up with to explain why my calcitriol only went high and I hurt like the dickens when I took valtrex and sun/vitamin d.

So...I still had/have a good viral load after rituxan. Hm. I might be going back to valtrex or maybe I'll order some gcmaf yogurt and putter around with herbals.

Anywho, food for thought.

Hi Anonymoose,

Have you tried coming at this from the perspective of where your amino acid levels are? In particular I'm thinking of Taurine levels.

Regards