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Jimmylegs the statement of anyone with amalgams must have poor health was not true in my case. Before I got sick at 59 I use the ride my bike 12 miles a day. On Sunday I would do 40 miles. I lifted weights and kept my weight under control. I felt really good so I don't think my health was bad. I drank a lot of soda so that probably result in tooth decay but I also ate a balanced diet. My health was pretty good until I first started having a problem with a root canal tooth. The root had cracked and I developed a boil under the gum. Had to have it removed. Then I needed a bridge. The dentist told me he could get me a good deal and I suspect it must have come from China. The first hair analysis test I had done showed 5 times over the limit for lead and I suspect it was the bridge. When I had it removed I should have had it check to see what it was made of but I was so sick wasn't thinking at the time. I will always wonder if the cavities were real when the dentist places the amalgams. Once the dentist told me I needed a filling on a tooth that already had an amalgam. He told me since I had good insurance he would just do a root canal. Apparently it was all about the insurance with him. I grew up trusting the dentist and he made me very sick. When I went to the doctors they couldn't figure it out so I had to figure it out for myself. My health was destroyed by the dental work not poor nutrition. My doctor told me it was just old age and I would have to learn to live with it. Think it is best for each of us to get the information and figure it out for ourselves and stop relying on the experts.

heya

can you clarify for me, if you are suggesting that needing to have your teeth filled was an indicator of good health? i would be interested to see some scientific consensus supporting the idea that poor dental health is not linked to poor nutritional status.

let me suggest that the riding 12 miles per day with a 40 mile trip on sunday would lead me to strongly suspect a case of athletic nutrient depletion. i've noticed the possibility comes up quite often here at TiMS
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/search.ph ... mit=Search

drinking lots of soda, potentially combined with an undesirable composition of internal microflora communities in the mouth and gut due to background nutrient depletion, could work together against you in terms of promoting tooth decay and impairing mercury handling capacity.

surely if nutrient status was not a factor, your mercury treatment should not have needed to include essential nutrient therapy? actually do you have any details on which specific nutrients and doses were included in the treatment protocol? that would be interesting to investigate further.

re the root canal - can you clarify for me if your tooth already had the root canal when the root cracked and the boil developed? or was the root canal done because your original tooth had those issues?

as for relying on experts, i think we have to - but yes, we do need to be discerning about who is qualified to provide us with our information.

re nutrition info, certainly my various medical professionals are not the pros. neither can i rely on any single web site to give me expert, comprehensive info. examining properly conducted primary research can really help get you to a meaningful personal conclusion though. yes, studies are subject to their own sources of biases, but good science declares those biases up front.

some interesting related info:
The Effect of Nutritional Status on the Age Distribution of Dental Caries in the Primary Teeth
http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/69/9/1564.short

Effects of Diet on Mercury Metabolism and Excretion in Mice Given Methylmercury: Role of Gut Flora
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 5MTqvldWt8

INTERACTIONS OF HUMAN COMMENSAL BACTERIA WITH AMALGAM-DERIVED MERCURY: THE SCIENCE AND ITS IMPLICATIONS FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE AND NEUROTOXICOLOGY
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/docket ... tach-1.pdf

I was not suggesting that having my teeth filled was an indication of good health. For sure the drinking of soda was not a good thing but I didn't have the facts at the time. I believed the commercials. Drinking soda was refreshing and all the beautiful people drink soda at least that is what the commercials told me. If I had actual cavities or not I cannot say. Never went for a second opinion. I believed what my dentist said. I had the root canal for a number of years before the root cracked. That is what they told me. The root of the tooth had cracked and was leaking poison into my gum. It created a boil on the gum. All root canals are full of poison. When I had the other 10 root canals removed I had one of them tested. It showed very toxic. I have always believe that we can get our nutrition from the food we eat and when I was riding my bike I was feeling well so doubt if I was missing anything. With the GMO issue today that may not be the case. I try and eat organic when possible but when eating out that is a problem. I usually eat out maybe once a week unless I am out of town and I usually do 3 day trips a couple times a month. It seems to be working because my hair analysis test shows I am OK on the minerals and my toxin level is very low. My blood test I do once a year shows OK numbers for my vitamin D, B12 and other markers. I do take a few supplements but am trying to get off them and rely strictly on diet. We all should try and get as much information as we can and put to use what helps us. For sure if we are not getting better we do something different. It is up to each of us the figure it out because we are meant to have good health. I have my health now and I pay attention to every thing I put in my body.

jimmylegs wrote:when the state of the debate is down to one person's common sense against another person's common sense, i think we're firmly into 'agree to disagree' territory.

Can't disagree with you on that one, Jimmy.

Rules of the Board
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... html#p1639
"If you disagree with someone, please succinctly state why and let it go at that. Point, counterpoint, counter-counter point, etc. is not useful-- the reality is that after the first disagreement, you will rarely convince another of something they feel strongly about unless you have shocking new information to share."

Agree with you again. But how many times has a particular poster stated that all FDA employees are criminals and doctors are a bunch of liars who want to keep us all sick??!! The rules should apply to all, don't you agree? As long as he is permitted to continually make comments like that on this forum, which tarnishes the reputation of TIMS, I will challenge those comments.

if members are expected to read your posts, make their own decision about the merits of the content, and move on, surely you can do the same?

See above.

failing that, if you're going to debate, why would you expect others to keep to a higher standard than you're prepared to provide yourself?

I don't but I guess the determination of who is following what standard people are using can be quite subjective.

As for the FDA conducting trials...their main purpose is to evaluate the science of drugs that researchers/companies provide them and determine if the drug is safe and appropriate for which the application has been submitted. They ensure that the participants in the trials are kept safe under such research. They do conduct studies in how the trials should be developed and the procedures that researchers should follow, again in the aim of keeping the public safe.

For sure the drinking of soda was not a good thing but I didn't have the facts at the time. I believed the commercials. Drinking soda was refreshing and all the beautiful people drink soda at least that is what the commercials told me.

At what age were you drinking this soda? I would think that most people by their late teens would realize that the sugar in soda was bad for your teeth . I can remember going to school in the 60's and being told this. It sounds like you wanted to believe what the commercials told you (that's why those companies advertised because they knew there were people out there who would believe them)

I had the other 10 root canals removed I had one of them tested. It showed very toxic.

10 root canals!!! I'm thinking you had some VERY big problems with your teeth. The possibilities of systemic infection would likely have been huge. Too bad your dentist didn't take a different approach.

We all should try and get as much information as we can and put to use what helps us.

Absolutely but with the internet and lack of accountability within it, it is difficult to determine what information is correct and what isn't. And relying on the views of one doctor is no guarantee as you discovered. You try and get the best info available and make your decision accordingly. But you can't paint everyone with the same brush when something goes wrong. Otherwise you'll never stop painting!!

ok so with 11 teeth needing a root canal procedure, i feel as though the objective measure of poor dental health might speak better to the situation than the subjective measure of how you felt bike riding..
when i was at my worst, i too was convinced that i could get what i needed from what i ate, and would have said i felt great. only in hindsight, after getting sick and spending some time taking measurements at the lab, getting the reality check, and making corrections, was i able to realize that i actually hadn't been in great shape at all.

With reference to the first post, in recent years composite filling use has been on an uptrend due to advances in the composites.

With increased use of composite fillings it would stand to reason the use of amalgam fillings would be in decrease in most situations. Wouldn't this indicate the rate of new MS cases should start a slow decline as amalgam related MS would begin to diminish and leave only other sources of MS as time passed?

I haven't been able to find a very good study on cases/year of MS but a few sources I found stated that MS incidents were increasing. Wouldn't that counter the logic from the initial statement that the change of amalgam compound in 1976 caused a sharp increase in MS cases?

it would be great if we had links to both primary sources. we'd have to look at how potential confounding factors are being addressed.

RuralLaundry as a fellow newbie I just wanted to welcome you. Your point is quite logical, yet again confounding factors could include a lot of people are having the old amalgams removed still which might actually be increasing the load for a few more years. Then you have the apparent assault of the electronic wave phenomenon as well as Dietrich Klinghardt, and others, claiming the world is being assaulted by aluminum. Usually this suggestion is associated with chem trails. I am not a big follower of this debate, but I am a fairly big believer in Dr Klinghardt, and if he says he is thoroughly convinced, and he was not initially, then i think it is looking into as well. I know this ' the sky is falling
" kind of stuff is a big turnoff for some, but sadly I have to say things are getting much worse in terms of environmental insults

I haven't been able to find a very good study on cases/year of MS but a few sources I found stated that MS incidents were increasing. Wouldn't that counter the logic from the initial statement that the change of amalgam compound in 1976 caused a sharp increase in MS cases?

MS cases have been increasing over the past 10 years or so but it's very difficult to attribute just why. I know that the ability to diagnose the disease has improved so what we are seeing now is more definite cases which in the past were not diagnosed as quickly.

There is a lot of speculation that diet is the biggest factor but trying to prove that is most difficult especially since most of the research is based on the auto-immune theory. Places like the Middle East had very low numbers of MS until we introduced them to our fast food diets about 20 years ago. The number of cases there has skyrocketed since that time so it makes you wonder. And MS cases in teenagers was rare years ago but now there are so many that there is a MS Clinic in existence at Sick Children's Hospital in Toronto. Some are attributing that to poor diet but who knows.I too doubt the amalgam speculation theory. While mercury can cause a lot of neurological problems that could mimic MS symptoms, the amount of mercury that is involved in amalgam fillings is very, very small. For every study that shows amalgam fillings to be overall safe, there is a study to show the opposite. It's been a hot topic for years but at least now the new composite fillings will eventually make it a mute point.

Harry- I assume you realize there are people that are also saying the filling itself plays a role energetically in blocking natural energy pathways, though composite may do this in the same manner Also heir are questions how metals in the mouth can react to non ionizing radiation form wireless communication devices and other electrical fields within the home or workplace. Kind of like serving as an antennae to ground some of these waves. I am not saying I agree, but it is part of the debate as well

MattN wrote:Harry- I assume you realize there are people that are also saying the filling itself plays a role energetically in blocking natural energy pathways, though composite may do this in the same manner Also heir are questions how metals in the mouth can react to non ionizing radiation form wireless communication devices and other electrical fields within the home or workplace. Kind of like serving as an antennae to ground some of these waves. I am not saying I agree, but it is part of the debate as well

Yes I have read some info on both and like any new theory, until it is absolutely scientifically proven, the debates are endless. Someone will come out with a study that states "this" and another study states says "nope". Amalgam fillings is but one example.

jimmylegs wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot

I stand corrected...thanks Jimmy. That's how one spells when in a big hurry

HarryZ wrote:

MattN wrote:Harry- I assume you realize there are people that are also saying the filling itself plays a role energetically in blocking natural energy pathways, though composite may do this in the same manner Also heir are questions how metals in the mouth can react to non ionizing radiation form wireless communication devices and other electrical fields within the home or workplace. Kind of like serving as an antennae to ground some of these waves. I am not saying I agree, but it is part of the debate as well

Yes I have read some info on both and like any new theory, until it is absolutely scientifically proven, the debates are endless. Someone will come out with a study that states "this" and another study states says "nope". Amalgam fillings is but one example.

Sorry but I am not clear on the bottom line. Are you saying there is just no knowing or hard evidence to have a conclusion in the clinical study process. Is there any other evidence to use?