This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

These professionals explain why fluoride is bad for the body. Reverse osmosis is a way to get it out.



http://www.uswatersystems.com/systems/r ... mosis.html

lots of vids out there, w2b. it would be great if you could work a bit harder on the actual research side of things, to help legitimize what you bring to the table here.

also i'd like to see the name of the youtube video without having to click on your link

and i don't think i'll necessarily trust what a purveyor of filtration products has to say on the subject

now, that is not to say i haven't done a fair amount of research on fluoride - i have, and we've discussed it here in the past. if you add new fluoride posts to the ongoing discussion, that could help readers have some context. if not by adding to an older thread, at least via some links to the previous discussion (although the forum does provide related topics below, i am not sure the tool is as effective as a search, or how often those related links are noticed or used)

sample previous TiMS discussion on fluoride

Post subject: Re: Which type of water is best : distilled or reverse osmosis
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/post20305 ... de#p203053

... the reason fluoride was added to drinking water in the first place.. over a century ago i believe... was on the basis of its being a required nutrient for dental health and cavity prevention ... i suspect there may be something else more fundamental about tooth nutrition that we've learned over the past century, that should allow us to move past the practice of adding fluoride to drinking water ...

Developmental influence of magnesium deficiency on rat molar tooth composition and dental caries
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1783801262
'The objective of this study was to determine if caries susceptibility of offspring could be altered by maternal magnesium deficiency. ... Offspring originating from these magnesium deficient dams had less calcium, phosphorus and zinc in molar dentin compared to controls at the end of a 45-day caries test period. This apparent preeruptive reduction in mineral content of offspring dentin was associated with higher caries scores on the first and second molar buccal surface.

Post subject: Re: Fluoride
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... ..fluoride deficiency or repletion is one discussion... the perceived need for supplementation in drinking water supplies is an entirely different sort of chat.

THE NON-ESSENTIALITY OF FLUORINE IN NUTRITION
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/62/4/561.full.pdf

here's an interesting nuance of fluoride nutrition:

Effects of Fluoride on Magnesium Deficiency in the Guinea Pig
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/92/3/311.full.pdf

Effect of fluoride on the mobilization of skeletal magnesium and soft-tissue calcinosis during acute magnesium deficiency in the rat
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1271120

i would suggest that a notable benefit of fluoride is to protect against specific outcomes of essential nutrient deficiencies.. think i'm arriving at the same conclusion i did before.. using fluoride for dental health, in lieu of essential nutrients, sounds to me like using inosine to elevate uric acid, rather than correcting underlying low zinc levels. protective perhaps, but not going to the.. root :S of the problem[/quote]i noted with interest, w2b, within the conversation on the last thread, your question:

Do you have any research you can post showing fluoride is a benefical nutrient?

i appreciate your interest in supporting academic research. i'm looking forward to seeing the results of your efforts in that department

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19772843

"...59 publications identified, 3 systematic reviews and 3 guidelines were included in this review. Water fluoridation, where technically feasible and culturally acceptable, remains a relevant and valid choice as a population measure for the prevention of dental caries.."

Water fluoridation is likely not necessary in most populations anymore, but to state that it absolutely causes adverse health effects is false.

jimmylegs wrote:lsounds to me like using inosine to elevate uric acid, rather than correcting underlying low zinc levels. protective perhaps, but not going to the.. root :S of the problem)

Do you see an issue with supplementing Inosine along with Zinc?

I currently supplement both as i do not eat red meat anymore. I think the studies on Inosine make it a no-brainer to take. Unlike other MS treatments Its cheap, effective, and has no side effects provided you drink a lot of water each day.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19425822

"...Increased serum UA levels correlated with a significant decrease in the number of gadolinium-enhanced lesions and improved EDSS..."

want2bike wrote:These professionals explain why fluoride is bad for the body. Reverse osmosis is a way to get it out.

Reverse osmosis water is so exceedingly low in minerals, drinking it will pull minerals out of your body. The resultant loss of magnesium, calcium and other minerals worsens health.

Water fluoridation, where technically feasible and culturally acceptable, remains a relevant and valid choice as a population measure for the prevention of dental caries.."

in the context of caries prevention specifically, and within specific ppm limits, i would tend to agree. on the other hand, i think it irresponsible to allow fluoride to contribute to the masking of a global magnesium deficit problem which is recognized by the WHO and contributes to such an array of common acute and chronic health problems.

Do you see an issue with supplementing Inosine along with Zinc?

it kind of depends. on the one hand i am not an advocate for supplementing endogenously synthesized products. i'd rather use essential nutrients to support endogenous production systems, than potentially weaken said systems by providing a crutch of sorts. on the other hand if your serum uric acid, and serum zinc are both optimized, i don't know of any specific harm. are you testing serum levels for both of those? (also fyi as i imagine you know, red meat is not the only source of inosine or of zinc - may i inquire re your personal rationale for the decision to omit red meat from your diet?)
i've said this many times on the forum before, but i ate high purine foods and presumably lots of inosine for years with no measurable effect on my serum UA. it was correction of zinc deficiency that had an instant and pronounced effect on my serum UA levels.

Reverse osmosis water is so exceedingly low in minerals, drinking it will pull minerals out of your body. The resultant loss of magnesium, calcium and other minerals worsens health

agree. sent THX some feedback on his use of RO water when he was PM-ing me about a hydration regimen earlier this year. he reported positive effects at the time, but i haven't heard any particularly recent updates.

HEALTH RISKS FROM DRINKING DEMINERALISED WATER
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_hea ... [quote]The possible adverse consequences of low mineral content water consumption are discussed in the following categories:
• Direct effects on the intestinal mucous membrane, metabolism and mineral homeostasis or other body functions.
• Little or no intake of calcium and magnesium from low-mineral water.
• Low intake of other essential elements and microelements.
• Loss of calcium, magnesium and other essential elements in prepared food.
• Possible increased dietary intake of toxic metals...
Results of experiments in human volunteers evaluated by researchers for the WHO report (3) are in agreement with those in animal experiments and suggest the basic mechanism of the effects of water low in TDS (e.g. < 100 mg/L) on water and mineral homeostasis. Low-mineral water markedly: 1.) increased diuresis (almost by 20%, on average), body water volume, and serum sodium concentrations, 2.) decreased serum potassium concentration, and 3.) increased the elimination of sodium, potassium, chloride, calcium and magnesium ions from the body. [/quote]

jimmylegs wrote:also fyi as i imagine you know, red meat is not the only source of inosine or of zinc - may i inquire re your personal rationale for the decision to omit red meat from your diet?

I eat chicken, turkey and a lot of fish, also Shrimp is a staple in my diet I have it at least once every 2 weeks. I supplement Zinc every other day and Inosine daily. I do not eat red meat because I believe saturated fat is an issue for pwMS based on several studies. I linked to a number of them in the topic linked below, which is based on the study linked below that.

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-d ... 24447.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1804476
"...High sensitivity to fats suggests that saturated animal fats are directly involved in the genesis of multiple sclerosis...."

sounds like a lot of good stuff
i think you and i have different interpretations of the word staple!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staple_food
i get it though. appears regularly.
there are whole diets for pwms based on limiting sat fat. but, i don't exclude all red meat based on its sat fat content. i like having the option to purchase locally raised and largely grass fed beef for its lower fat content and improved omega fatty acid ratio.

compare grass fed ground (1g sat fat per oz - same as chicken or turkey) to standard feedlot 70% lean ground (3g sat fat per oz) or 80% lean ground beef (2g sat fat per oz)

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... ts/10526/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... cts/8004/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/bee ... cts/6203/2

i also enjoy having periodic access to wild game (2g sat fat per oz):
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/lam ... cts/4812/2

one day a few yrs ago i went over some meals to check out their sat fat content:
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... ml#p161305

as a general rule, i suspect there is enough beneficial nutrition in red meat that enjoying it in moderation, from carefully chosen sources, may be wiser than abstinence.

sample recommendations from others:
http://www.direct-ms.org/recommendations.html
Reduce
Foods that contain saturated fat. Eat red meat (lean cuts) only once a week.
Increase
...game meat ... for protein content.