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re Jon's Post:
"Hi, I have done some research on SF1019 for a relative and I believe that it is plainly a scam of some sorts. If you visit the Daval International web site there is a link in the news section to a law suit brought by Daval against The Argyll Group. This is the group Osmond is involved with and is made up of ex Directors and ex scientific people from Daval. Not so long ago Osmond was singing the praises of Daval's drug, now he is saying the same things about SF1019. I think he is just in it for the money and have advised my relative to stay clear of this group. I have tried to gain more infomation from the SF1019 website but have drawn a blank. Osmond is now saying (Osmondms.com) the serum is registered as a Public company (IMMUNOSYN) and will be listed on NASDAQ within the next 30-45 days. This just sounds like a money making exercise to me I am afraid."


You make an interesting point about the former Daval scientists which makes you wonder why such prominent and extremely well respected scientists left them in the first place.

If you search the British, European and US patent offices you will find that neither Daval or Aimsco Ltd, who are the supposed patent owners have any granted patents.

Only patent applications are filed for AIMSPRO which means zip, so why are they are taking people to court. It might be something more to do with Daval's Chairman, David Shotton and his wife, who before the "High Court" action was started by Daval, were already being sued in the same court where it is alleged that the Shottons misappropriated $3 million plus from an alleged investor who is now amazingly one of the Daval defendants. Don't forget that David Shotton and his wife are according to the Sunday Times Article dischaged Bankrupts. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 72158.html

If any here is a lawyer, they might take the trouble to read the court filings, which in the case of the Daval action are long on accusations and lacking in detail

The specials license for Aimspro is not designed for large scale manufacture or patient use and does not in itself give any guarantee of safety or efficaccy, in fact these matters are not even considered since the intent of the license is to allow Doctors to make up specials for individual patients.

A full clinical trial is needed to establish safety and efficaccy etc and it is worthy of note that Daval have been promising to start new clinical trials after the others were stopped for the past two years.

I suggest that there is much more going on here than meets the eye and also wonder, if in your research, you found this link http://argyllbiotechnologies-uk.co.uk/ which suggests that Argyll onward licenses its finished products and gives a rough outline of its' plans.

I think that Davals' comments on their website about the MS society speaks reams as does this link http://www.mssociety.org.uk/news_events ... times.html

In closing patients matter and not this battle between companies, although I must say that Argyll unlike Daval, do not denigrate anybody.

I will keep digging and post more in the future.

Steamer

Brainteaser wrote:I think it is important that we know all about everything out there (both good and bad).

+1

Hi Steamer,
You seem a bit steamed up about the Daval-Argyll thing. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you might be connected to Argyll. If that's so, maybe you might inform us as to what is really important such as: what exactly is SF1019? how does it work? has it worked? results of any trials, availability & cost etc., etc.
Many thanks,
Phil.

"You seem a bit steamed up about the Daval-Argyll thing. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that you might be connected to Argyll. If that's so, maybe you might inform us as to what is really important such as: what exactly is SF1019? how does it work? has it worked? results of any trials, availability & cost etc., etc.

Many thanks,

Phil."

Hi Phil,

You are partly right in that I do have a small amount of inside knowledge.

Argyll are for both commercial and legal reasons being very quiet about SF1019 and most posts here and on the other boards seem to flare up after Alan Osmond mentions it on his websites. I have spoken with Alan about this and he has told me that sometimes he gets over excited in his need to give people hope. He also said that when he was on “Aimspro” it was quite effective and that he only stopped taking it when Daval advised him that they could no longer supply him.

SF1019 was not designed specifically to treat MS and is not even remotely similar to or based upon Aimspro. A small number of MS patients (including Alan who has derived major benefits from it) have been treated and the anecdotal results are very good. Apart from a small number of Doctors who for compassionate reasons, are being allowed to prescribe and set their own treatment costs no prices have been set by the company.

Argyll do not want to obtain a “Specials Licence” or hype SF1019 at this stage and are concentrating their efforts on getting proper clinical trials completed which are capable of withstanding peer review before making any solid claims. All Argyll products are properly manufactured with the appropriate licenses under GMP conditions.

I note that today on the Proventus web site it is reported that Hillary Price, who was the lady who delivered the petition to 10 Downing Street in the UK asking that Aimspro be made available on the National Health Service has sadly passed on. All very sad, since had Daval managed to complete their clinical trials she might well as with others still be alive today. Once again another good reason for Argyll to keep quiet about things and concentrate on getting the job done. http://www.proventus.org.uk/

Argyll have advised that they will update their website periodically http://argyllbiotechnologies-uk.co.uk/

Good luck

Steamer

I tried emailing them (information@argyllbiotechnologies-uk.co.uk) to ask if there was somewhere I could see a copy of the results from the small trials they mention on their website, their response was:

The two small studies provide only an indication, which anecdotaly is good and the real data which can be (peer reviewed) can only come from a formal clinical trial which is yet to be done.

I hope that this helps

Steamer wrote:Argyll are for both commercial and legal reasons being very quiet about SF1019 ...

Utter rubbish !!!! The only way to research any new therapy is through proper peer-reviewed papers which *by definition* are open. I wouldn't trust this bunch any further than I can run - which aint very far these days!

Steamer wrote:He also said that when he was on “Aimspro” it was quite effective and that he only stopped taking it when Daval advised him that they could no longer supply him.

Why not? They're quite happy to try to flog it to other people!

Steamer wrote:I note that today on the Proventus web site it is reported that Hillary Price, who was the lady who delivered the petition to 10 Downing Street in the UK asking that Aimspro be made available on the National Health Service has sadly passed on. All very sad, since had Daval managed to complete their clinical trials she might well as with others still be alive today.

Very unlikely, see my post in the Aimspro forum that tells a different story. http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-22988.html#22988

I think that Steamer agreed with you on the clinical trials

Argyll do not want to obtain a “Specials Licence” or hype SF1019 at this stage and are concentrating their efforts on getting proper clinical trials completed which are capable of withstanding peer review before making any solid claims. All Argyll products are properly manufactured with the appropriate licenses under GMP conditions.

As to why Daval did not flog it as you put to Alan O. or finish trials who Knows

Lets wait it out

If this true,

"Argyll do not want to obtain a “Specials Licence” or hype SF1019 at this stage and are concentrating their efforts on getting proper clinical trials completed which are capable of withstanding peer review before making any solid claims. All Argyll products are properly manufactured with the appropriate licenses under GMP conditions."

why are they letting some doctor south of the border sell it to patients for $10,000 per treatment? Sounds to me like proper trials to find problems (remember Tysarbi) need to be conducted before using paying, desperate MS'ers to be the trial guinea pigs.

gwa

Steamer,
You haven't told us much more in post 2 than you said in post 1. It's also worrying that you were not upfront initially regarding your connection to Argyll. As gwa suggests, the commercial and legal secrecy argument does not hold much water when you can go to Mexico, get the drug and have it analysed. If Argyll wants respect in the MS community, it needs to be more open and honest.
Phil.

I worked for the FDA as an investigator for about 10 years. All I can say is this has all the markings of health fraud. I worked a lot on health fraud cases in my time and these people seem to know how to skirt the line on making unapproved new drug claims and just making a quick buck on those of us who have no where else to turn.

Buyer beware! I see flashbacks of bee sting treatment, or rattlesnake enemas. All available to cure soemthing just south o' the border here in San Diego. (Tijuana)

Skeptic G

Nemotoday wrote:As to why Daval did not flog it as you put to Alan O. or finish trials who Knows

The trial in Oxford did finish and it showed no significant outcome for either of its first two objectives (MS) and limited on its third (ON). The London, St Georges trial was pulled by Daval alledging a breach of protocol. Hmm a respected teaching hosiptal knows how to do a trial and a pharma co knows that no result is better than a negative one!

Nemotoday wrote:Argyll do not want to obtain a “Specials Licence” or hype SF1019 at this stage and are concentrating their efforts on getting proper clinical trials completed which are capable of withstanding peer review before making any solid claims.

Well put the science in the open! There is no commercial disadvantage in doing so. And if it is good science then let other researchers see it and improve on it for our benefit!

JFH,

You make some very good points, but at a guess, I suspect that as Daval seem to be claiming that SF1019 is in fact Aimspro and Argyll is in litigation with Daval, then the science needs to be kept confidential whilst the court case is ongoing. Also if they have not got their patents wrapped up then to publish details could give them problems.

GWA's comment as below is a good one and deserving of a reply.

why are they letting some doctor south of the border sell it to patients for $10,000 per treatment? Sounds to me like proper trials to find problems (remember Tysarbi) need to be conducted before using paying, desperate MS'ers to be the trial guinea pigs.

The Mexico bit, does contradict the bit about them not getting a specials license though.

Hopefully more will emerge

Steamer,

It is obvious from your postings that you have more than "a small amount of insider knowledge" and something of a personal relastionship with "Alan", all of which leads me to believe that you are well connected to SF1019. Quite frankly, I found the tone of your posting arrogant and rude and wonder why you would visit this forum, unless it is to simply promote SF1019. Which, I am sure you are aware from your insider knowledge, is illegal.

Unlike you, I am simply attempting to sift through the confusing and conflicting info regarding effective treatments for MSer's. I am not a Medical person and had no knowledge of MS until someone very close to me was recently diagnosed as having this illness. I am simply trying to do what I can for them.

I think you should read your postings again as, like others here, I see they are full of contradictions and have not answered any of the questions I had about SF1019. In fact, it has further persuaded me to stay well clear of this group. Thank you anyway.

Jon.

http://www.davalinternational.com/index ... php?nid=22

23/01/07 - Trials

Daval International Limited now has links with a number of key clinical and scientific researchers worldwide, with a growing level of interest being shown in the setting up of randomised double-blind, placebo controlled clinical trials of AIMSPRO. A European leader in the study and treatment of multiple sclerosis has recently submitted a trial protocol for consideration by an Institutional Ethics Committee and the Competent Authority. This long term study will focus on bladder symptoms in secondary progressive multiple sclerosis.

If approval is achieved from these two entities than announcements for recruitment of patients will be made by MS charity groups. In addition, updated trials information will be regularly posted on this web site.

After reading this forum, and having read the Sunday Times article, I also looked into Daval International. I invested my entire savings into this company believing that a cure was imminent. They have over 750,000 shares - that Daval value at £300 each (their most recent sale price)! If this is the case, they are worth £125,000,000. Please! I was further shocked when I found out that the manufacturing patent for Aimspro doesnt belong to Daval - but to a company owned by the chairmans, David Shotton's wife called Aimsco. Now I hear that they have a £10 million investment for research and development - not for MS but for HIV and Aids.