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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:44 am
by Jim_P
I used to smoke herb all the time until it started giving me high anxiety, that's why I compared it to pot.
I think it might keep me awake too, but my sleep schedule is so f'd up that I couldn't tell any difference.
When you mentioned getting up and peeing, did you have less trouble than usual or more than usual?
I urinated with a great deal of ease for the first few days, as I mentioned. I still am going better than before the NAG, but not as good as the first week.
We all have different MS works of art on our spines and brains, so who knows how anything will affect any of us, unless we try.
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:05 pm
by Loobie
Jim,
The urination hasn't changed at all except I only got up once last night. I only pee about 3-5 oz. per 'void', so there was no change in that. I did take it again this morning and did not get the nervous energy at all. Last night it was weird. I took that stuff about an hour before we left the house. I posted right before we left that I had no anxiety, but then, bam, we got in the car and my heart started racing. Delayed reaction I guess. So far no real change at all except for the sleep thing last night, but that could've been random. Like I said, let me finish that whole tub and then I'll get my hopes up if something happens. Until then, everything is an abberation that doesn't last four days or more. I don't mean to sound skeptical, but I have to guard getting my hopes up. Getting my hopes dashed about my health hurts more than it did a few years ago!
Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:12 pm
by Lyon
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NAGging reminders...
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:18 am
by mvisconte
1) I want to know what the tub is so I can research... I believe that this is powder/loose, vs the tablets, correct?
2) I would like to know if tablet users react differently to the tablets -- powder mixed in fluids would hit the system like Emeril cooks... "BAM!"
3) Maybe taking 4 doses of 1/2 size would treat you better than two doses. And, if it is going to affect sleep patterns, I wouldn't want to take it too close to sleep time... what time is it taken by those who are taking it? To space it out, maybe 1st thing in the morning, then mid-morning, afternoon, and dinner. 7am, 10am, 2pm, 6pm? Or, like the old Dr. Pepper ad: 10-2-and-6 for three doses (well, maybe 8-12-and-4).
4) There are some metabolic medicines that should be taken with rests in between. I wonder if taking it for one-or-two days, then resting for one-or-two days would moderate the down-sides and boost the up-sides. Jim, how long did you go before you plateaued? "eaue?" that doesn't look right. Anyway, if you were to rest a bit, then take it for a little less time than to the plateau part... Use the wave cycle, I guess...
5) Many nutritional "meds" are aided or supplemented by other substances... in standard nutrition journals, is there any indication that NAG works better w/ Supplement A or is less effective if Supplement B? I know that glutathion is (evidently) good for MS -- but glutathion is not metabolized well by taking... glutathion. There are other nutrients, vitamines, and substances that provide the body with the raw materials, catalysts, and fuel to help the body convert those to glutathion chemically rather than thru digestion. [aside: In my yout, I tinkered. Macromolecular medicine was a hobby. I read there specific chemicals in the brain are there to provide specific effects, and how they can get "used up" through various activities like stress, physical labor, pain, etc. Now, we can take it easy, eat well, find that 'happy spot", and find a could of week to get a way and exercise, and nature and the body will replenish those substances. Or, we can find out what chemical burnouts are, what the precursors to those chemicals are, and suppliment on our own.
When I was leading a much more active life, living on the road, moving from town to town, sleeping in a different place every couple of nights, carrying equipment, setting up, configuring, then training. training, training,-- and not wanting to let any of these people down... I would get in a 2am Monday (after driving back through Sunday) and have to be back at work by 8a. Between endoginous depression, stress, physical exhaustion, confusion, not having any one to count on, being responsible for everythingn that was going to happen... I was a pretty tight guy. I read up on Tryptopham -- just before they pulled it off of the market. I got the biggest book on Macro-molecular Nutrition that I could find, and I started reading...
What brain chemical is depleted by what force... What brain chemical antagonizes another brain chemical... What chemicals are part of a super, secret nutritional Ninja Team -- who by themselves are a formidable force, but when they are drawn together... They get magic weapons and tools, and spells and incantations, and then they go to war against what is attacking their master (owner).
DLPA - valuable if you are under stress, it replenishes the endorphins and enkeflins and nor-epinepherin, and the rest breaks down into other useful substances, and such. As a result, depression that you have experienced lightens, and lifts, and, eventually goes away. That's easy to over look the cause directly because the change is subtle and without the stress, pain, anger, changes have a way of being covered by the new feelings of energy, ease, happiness, and general activity.
Oh well, enough for tonight.... I have to get up in 5 hrs and my meds aer kicking in.
-m.
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:00 am
by Loobie
Bob,
I think maybe undermining the effect is maybe my subconscious intention. Whatever changes happen; be they "real" or not, I want to almost be forced to notice them, ie, they are real. I'm definitely a slop pool player, but the ball still has to go in the pocket!
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:04 am
by Lyon
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Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:49 pm
by Jim_P
MVSCONTE-
It was about four days that I levelled off.
It's funny you mentioned taking it in segments. When I noticed I leveled off, I thought to myself that if I stopped for a little while and started again later, I may benefit more. What you mentioned was my exact thinking, stemming from instinct.
Not to mentioned I'd save money that way. I think I may give it a week break.
The anxiety I'm feeling from it is getting a little old. It seems to hit me worse, especially if I consume it on an empty stomach.
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:05 pm
by Jim_P
MVSCONTE-
I would not suggest that anyone take this stuff 4 times a day.
One day I did that and I felt hot flashes and anxiety that were paramount.
I'll never try that again.
NAG, NAG, NAG...
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:23 pm
by mvisconte
Jim,
Are you saying that even 1/2 of a dose makes you anxious? Wow.
I wonder if anybody else gets the anxious feeling?
Marc
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:24 pm
by Jim_P
The question is, what is a dose of this for my experiment. The jar says take one scoop per day. I am doing two scoops per day.
Four scoops a day is WAY too much, believe me.
If you read up on this same page, Loobie felt the anxiety from it as well.
No matter what dose you take it will cause a feeling of anxiety, unless other's systems take differently to it.
Taking 4 doses in one day (approx. 4 teaspoons) made me feel like I had an overdose.
Trial and error, live and learn.
Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:17 pm
by Jim_P
I've made a firm decision to leave two day gaps between my NAG powder consumption... Two days on and two days off.
mvsconte mentioned this and I have also had this instinctual feeling that it may work better.
Of the couple weeks I've been taking it, after it levelled off I took a day off from it, New Year's Eve. I seemed to feel like I did the first few days of taking it.
I thought perhaps this was a coincidence until today. I haven't taken it today and I'm feeling it working like it did in the beginning. Tomorrow I won't take it, but the day after tomorrow I'll go back to 2 scoops a day. The following day the same, then I'll take another two day break and so on.
I will let you know if there is any change in how I feel.
Re: Getting better too quickly... is it a bad thing?
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:18 am
by NHE
Jim_P wrote:The question is, what is a dose of this for my experiment. The jar says take one scoop per day. I am doing two scoops per day.
Four scoops a day is WAY too much, believe me.
I think there's been some confusion here. Mvisconte was asking if you have ever tried cutting your dose in half but taking them more frequently. For example, if you are currently taking two scoops and a scoop is a teaspoon, then have you ever tried taking half a teaspoon but four times per day? The total daily dose would still be the same.
NHE
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:46 am
by CureOrBust
I have the tablet form in 750mg. Suggested dose is 3 capsules once a day. I take 5 capsules twice a day, and notice no side effects.
There is also a suggestion to take a product called BioSil along with NAG, for other conditions.
Half as much, twice as long...
Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:31 pm
by mvisconte
NHE wrote:Mvisconte was asking if you have ever tried cutting your dose in half but taking them more frequently. For example, if you are currently taking two scoops and a scoop is a teaspoon, then have you ever tried taking half a teaspoon but four times per day? The total daily dose would still be the same.
NHE
BINGO! I was just too tired to say it as purty as you did!
Also, have you tried taking it w/ meals? There can be some issues w/ uptake from the gut w/ some amino acids if they compete w/ food -- but then, some not, eh? There also may be some other vites/suppliments that you might take to moderate the anxious effects.
Nothing immediately comes to mind (I thought of several possibles while driving around in the car, but I can't type and don't have connectivity at 70 MPH
)
Tryptopham maybe? Which I think is another possible pro-MS nutrient. Unfortunately, that is one of the ones that has a hard time competing w/ food, so I don't recommend supplimenting trypt w/ a meal.
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:10 pm
by CureOrBust
since this appears to be the NAG thread.
I came across the following at
http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseact ... pageid=737 with regard to the "Best Bet Diet" & Leaky gut:
NAG (N-acetyl glucoamine) - builds the tissue surrounding intestinal wall cells. It has a unique ability to decrease the binding of some lectins to the intestinal lining.