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Harry
Americans are "loathe to have government get involved in certain parts of their life" because our country was founded that way. The federal government is not supposed to be involved in people's lives to this extent.

Cheer
You are welcome! I am glad you are going to look through the bill. I hope many others do also.

I can't accept "Big Brother" watching. It is not the way we are supposed to be as a nation. I believe we have to stop accepting what the government determines. It is not right.

If we need to have some form of public option to cover the uninsured or underinsured then we need to find a way to do that. (Aren't Medicare and Medicaid public options? Why can't those programs be revised to do just that?) But I think the government needs to leave the rest of the people alone and allow them to choose what plan works best for their particular circumstance.

Lori

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Insurance now is like credit cards. People don't 'feel' the cost of their procedures since someone else pays them and they don't start raising a ruckus until their copays get unmanageble. If we truly owned our policies, and not our employers, then we wouldn't have let it get this far. I mean what else can you insure like we try and do health. Oil changes? When it went on the employers after the war to try and lure workers back, it is just too bad it stuck.

So the costs went nuts since you weren't actually feeling it. If we'd have been feeling it all along, it wouldn't be this way. I agree though, something has to change, but I want less government, not more. I echo Loriyas about the big brother thing. Maybe that's why I'm libertarian. I am just a liberty lover; gov't, protect our BORDERS (read: don't fight unless attacked) and provide law and order, otherwise - go away! We need to quit trying to make everything a 'right'. The two party thing is what's contributing to all of this also. Just exactly where do I fit? I'm socially liberal (how does it adversely affect me if there's gay marriage?), but fiscally conservative (I earned that money with hard work; keep your hands off of it and give my tax money to people in need, not those who choose to do nothing) so I have no home except the libertarian party. Which has been branded as "the party that wants to legalize drugs". Cute. I just hope a rock star comes out of the libertarian party that can get the real message out. I truly think it's our only hope to stay on top. And I rather like being there!

Hi Bob,
I stand by my statement that most Americans are happy with their current health care. A new Rasmussen poll says 80% of those with insurance rate their coverage as good or excellent. That says to me that our current system does work for most of our needs.

I agree that it is unfair that if someone who works and pays taxes ends up with no insurance. Those are the folks that we need to help by coming up with a plan. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water! Leave those of us who are happy with what we have, like you and I, alone.

I disagree that it is not "already over but the crying". There is no reason that a different solution can't be found And I also disagree that if there was a way to fix to fix the system it would have been done long ago. I don't think anyone has tried hard enough.

I would like to thank Bubba for starting this thread. I am so glad we are all discussing this.

Lori

Lori, I'm not American, but I think you're on to something with your Medicare comment:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/njonline ... 9_2600.php

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What is the argument for giving healthcare for illegals ? What is the rationale? I truly do not get it.

Edit: Good will can go very far but when things are in crisis....

More items in the health care bill that I found this evening:


-p 149 lines 16-24 Any employer with a payroll of $400,000 and up who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll

-p 150 lines 9-13 Any employer with a payroll of $251,000 to $400,000 who does not provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on payroll

-p 268 Section 1141 Federal government regulates rental and purchase of power driven wheel chairs

-p 298 lines 9-11 doctor who treats patient during initial admission that results in a readmission will be penalized

-p 341 government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs etc forcing people into government plan

p 425 lines 17-19 government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney etc.


There is much more if anyone cares to research. The thought occurred to me this evening that I have no idea how we are going to pay for all of this. It is ridiculous.

Lori

Unbelievable......

There is a guy named Jamie Dupree, who is a network behind the scenes guy, who is dissecting this bill. What he has uncovered will make your head spin. I'll provide the link later when I get to work. I think it's in my favorites there. Like Bub said, it's kind of unbelievable. I wish we could just quit playing politics with this one of all things. We need to get this one right!

Like most Europeans, I have this image of Americans having to show a credit card to get into hospital. There was an article in Spiegel the other day about the non-existent health system in the Appalachians. They go there once a year and set up a tent city, pulling teeth and such for people who do not even have a doctor to go to. These are perhaps the persons your president wants to help.

I expect everyone on this site has access to a PC and so is educated and has enough funds to live. You do not have to choose between eating and visiting the doctor.

I am in the German health system, and up till now MS has not cost me a cent. To start with my Cop cost 10 Euro for 3 months, but now I order it on the internet and it is free. Etc. Of course the system is expensive, top heavy and wasteful. It is further weakened by the ability for young healthy people to opt out and go private. (Of course they find a way to weasel back in once they get children or get old.) They try to fine tune it now and again to save money. Now glasses are not free any more, or false teeth. Many of us take out a private policy on top of the basic state one, to top it up, as it were.

But we have a very fine system which works for all of us, this is the point; if MS stops me from working, or if I get cancer, I will not have to sell my house to pay for treatment.

Well I was going to post the link, but then realized there is also a lot of politicking in his breakdown. It's a good breakdown, but has a slant to it that I don't want to throw in here. However, here is a link to the actual bill, which is 1,018 pages long! http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_1 ... /aahca.pdf

Go Crazy!

The bill is so overwhelming that it will take someone to go thru it fulltime...I can't see how congress will disect it to vote on it with complete knowledge of what all there is in it. Now I uderstand how they can slip things in for their own agendas.

To echo you point Holly.

I learned this today:

-p 425 Everyone on Social Security (including all senior citizens and SSI people) will go to mandatory counseling every 5 years to learn to choose from ways to end your suffering (and end your life). Health care will be denied based on age. $500 billion will be cut from seniors' health care.

That answers my question, in part, of yesterday in how we are going to pay for this.


To hear more this is the link:

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