This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Regarding Lipoic acid, r lipoic acid is the natural form and has 6-12 times greater activity that the s form which is present at 50% in products labled as "alpha lipoic acid." The s form actually has a negative physiological cost associated with its use. You can read one of my posts, Lipoic Acid: R vs. S, for more information. A good source of r-lipoic acid is a product made by Dr's Best. You can buy it online from SuperSupplements and then get it shipped to a store near you for free to save money since the online price is usually lower than the in-store price.

Regarding Evening Primrose Oil (EPO), it contains gamma-Linolenic acid (GLA) which is an anti-inflammatory omega-6 which usually is not present in our diet. GLA is also found in borage seed oil. Here are a couple of papers that discuss GLA.

• gamma-Linolenic acid treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. A randomized, placebo-controlled trial.
  http://tinyurl.com/r6h89w
  
  Polyunsaturated fatty acids in the pathogenesis and treatment of multiple sclerosis.
  http://tinyurl.com/n58k69
  
  Polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation stimulates differentiation of oligodendroglia cells.
  http://tinyurl.com/oqbtfq

NHE

"gamma-Linolenic acid (GLA) which is an anti-inflammatory omega-6 which usually is not present in our diet"

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/omega-6-000317.htm
"Most omega-6 fatty acids in the diet come from vegetable oils, such as linoleic acid (LA). Be careful not to confuse this with alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), an omega-3 fatty acid. Linoleic acid is converted to gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) in the body."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/gamm ... 000305.htm
"There are several different types of omega-6 fatty acids. Most omega-6 fatty acids in the diet come from vegetable oils in the form of linoleic acid (LA). The body converts linoleic acid to GLA..."

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nu ... rientdescr
"Linoleic acid is found in high concentrations in corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, and canola oil. Most people consume a much higher amount of linoleic acid than alpha-linolenic acid, which has important health consequences."

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/alph ... 000284.htm
"Alpha-linolenic acid is a kind of omega-3 fatty acid found in plants. It is similar to the omega-3 fatty acids that are in fish oil, called eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Your body can change alpha-linolenic acid into EPA and DHA. Alpha-linolenic acid is found in flaxseed oil, and in canola, soy, perilla, and walnut oils.

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nu ... rientdescr
"The three most nutritionally important omega-3 fatty acids are alpha-linolenic acid, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).
"Dietary sources of alpha-linolenic acid include flaxseeds, walnuts, hemp seeds, soybeans and some dark green leafy vegetables."

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=84
"Researchers think omega-3s may be better absorbed from fish because fish contains these fats in the form of triglycerides, while the omega-3s in almost all refined fish oils are in the ethyl ester form."
Enhanced incorporation of n-3 fatty acids from fish compared with fish oils.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17269556

i eat flax seeds, use flax oil, and eat wild-caught salmon. i do take fish oil gelcaps for EPA and DHA, in spite of the fact my body can make these, and also in spite of the fact that eating salmon is supposed to be more effective than oil supplements at raising the body's levels of EPA and DHA. i may have just typed myself into saving some money on fish oil supplements

Hi JL,
Thanks for all of the references. I wasn't implying that omega-3 oils are not important. As you know, I take fish oil myself which provides 2.1 g/day of DHA+EPA and I can usually detect a positive change in my energy levels afterwards. My point was that taking GLA directly and bypassing the conversion process from LA can be beneficial as the journal articles I cited have noted.

NHE

just info, i was sort of clarifying for myself too. i learned a couple things while putting that together. also, i would still tend to wonder if folks that benefitted from GLA supplements just weren't getting enough LA in the first place. interesting!

Hello all!
Thank you so much Jimmylegs and NHE for your feedback! I really, really appreciate it!

I've been running around like crazy lately, preparing for the wedding...it's coming up in 3 weeks...

I decided to start taking some magnesium glycinate, even though the test results show no deficiency, I'm right at the limit for MS territory...as jimmylegs calls it
Jimmylegs, where do you get your magnesium from? What brand is it?
I read an earlier post where you said that you take it before meals...is it right before meals or a while before meals? I want to be really careful with it since I have acid reflux...wanna stay away from Tums if possible also...

Another thing is...I'm taking Zn after breakfast....but if my breakfast consists of all the seeds rich in magnesium (like pumpkin, sunflower, etc) and magnesium competes with Zn for absorption...then which one of the minerals is more likely to be absorbed? Should I take Zn with a vegetebla snack later on?....I'm a little confused...

Furthermore, the Iron supplement I take needs to be taken 30 minutes prior to a meal....if I start taking magnesium, would iron and magnesium compete/deplete?

I'm starting to feel a little anxiety due to the wedding...I hope the magnesium and Omega 3 will help....

Thank you all so very much!

Maria

hey there

i get kirkman brand magnesium glycinate from a local fairly mainstream pharmacy - but i don't think kirkman is your usual pharmacy fare like jamieson or whatever.

i have used various things for magnesium citrate, and that one tends to be one i get at more of a specialty nutrition store. for example 'Now Foods' and 'Natural Calm'.

personally, i can take citrate whenever, but i have to be careful with glycinate.

some sources eg klenner say to take magnesium *after* eating BUT i take glycinate *just before* food in order to make the food push the magnesium down into my intestines ASAP. if it hangs out in my stomach, it relaxes my LES and voila, acid reflux.

with the citrate form, i can take it after eating, or on an empty stomach, and then i could go lie down for good measure, with no problems. it seems that it just doesn't absorb as readily, in my experience.

i like to have both forms on hand. i think they will both help you cope with the stress and anxiety of your busy exciting times! a nice hot mug of natural calm in the evening can be very soothing too, and it comes in a bunch of different flavours.

as for which thing to take with which meal, i think if you take zinc with a seedy breakfast you'll be okay. alot of nuts and seeds -including pumpkin- naturally contain both magnesium and zinc; your body knows how to handle it

yes iron and zinc compete, and magnesium and calcium compete, etc, everything seems to influence everything else in some way! when it comes in food, your body knows how to work it out. with supplements it's a little different. for example if you take just iron it shoots up fast, but your zinc level can drop. if you take just zinc that shoots up fast, but your iron can drop. if you take both, both levels climb, but just more slowly than they would taking either alone. at the end of the day, when you're taking higher doses than those occurring in food, you just have to try for balance.

if you are concerned about iron and magnesium together, then if it works for you, you could take iron and magnesium at separate meals. you can take the iron with vitamin C to optimize its absorption, and then the magnesium on its own at a diff time of day.

clear as mud??? 7:)
good luck with all your final arrangements, it's going to be awesome and you'll be cool as a cucumber! keep us posted ttfn

Hey Jimmylegs, how are you nowadays?
Wedding is coming up...I'm really excited about it!
I went ahead and bought some of the Natural Calm Magnesium. However, the one I got has Calcium in it as well.
I read articles saying "Magnesium and calcium compete with each other for intestinal absorption. Consequently, calcium supplements should not be taken at the same time as magnesium supplements. "....so I don't understand....if I take them together, will they work? Will I get benefits from both?

Furthermore, can I take the Natural Calm together with the Zn? Hsfoods has the following statement on Zn interraction: "the ability of zinc - particularly supplemental zinc - to impair the status of other nutrients.
The most important of these nutrients are copper and calcium. Even at moderate doses of 18-20 milligrams that can easily be obtained from food, zinc can compromise the body's supply of copper unless foods rich in copper are also included in the diet. When few foods high in calcium are included in the diet, high levels of zinc intake (usually obtained from supplements) can also decrease absorption of calcium from the intestine into the body. "

What type of Zn supplements do you take, JL? Mine is a ZN picolinate (30 mg) with 2 mg of copper

Also, apparently "Calcium in food and supplements decreases the absorption of heme and nonheme iron. ".....I'm taking my Iron supplements ah hour before taking the Natural Calm....is that enough to ensure proper absorption of the Iron?

I'm finding out all this stuff about these supplements and I'm trying to figure out the bast way to take them to ensure optimum absorption.

Thank you very much!!

heya!! i am great thanks, and i hope you are having lots of fun with wedding prep

can you tell me exactly which natural calm product you have, or even better link me up to the exact product online somewhere? then i can see exactly what you're dealing with in terms of dosages and ratios.

yes calcium and magnesium compete but all kinds of manufacturers put them both into a blended supplement of one ratio or another. some thinkers want 2 calcium to 1 magnesium, some want 1:1, some want 2 mag to 1 cal.

personally i don't do well supplementing calcium, but i always need more magnesium! there is both calcium and magnesium in my multi, but i definitely take my extra magnesium separately, and generally with b-complex.

also, i'd say take zinc separately from natural calm just to be on the safe side. probably not a huge deal though in terms of safety, just efficacy and getting the most bang for your buck.

my zinc product is citrate with 2mg copper. i think your product might be better, i've read good things about picolinate but never see it. yes zinc can drive down copper dangerously if you take too much, but from what i've read that would be more along the lines of 100mg zinc daily for a long time. i get my copper tested with zinc periodically and it has not dropped in any worrisome way to date. in fact at first i thought it would come down as my zinc level went up from deficient, but instead my copper level actually climbed.

at the end of the day healthy diet is the best foundation for any supplement regimen, so i hope you're finding time to eat right amidst all your exciting preparations! hope that helped, let me know if you have any more questions

As always, thanks a lot for your help!!

Here the link to the Natural Calm I use:

http://www.vitacost.com/natural-vitalit ... 5534001461

I noticed that if I take the Zn by itself, even if it's with food, my hands get shaky after about an hour or so...also I start feeling pretty weak, in my arms especially....symptoms aren't as bad when I take ZN and Natural Calm together.....maybe it's because ZN impairs Ca...i don't know...
Anyways, thanks a lot!!! i really appreciate the help!! You're the best!

heya! you're very welcome, and thanks for the link.

zinc picolinate is reputedly a quick absorber, so maybe you'll be good to take it with calcium, since you feel better that way.

and as for the magnesium calcium blend in your natural calm, if you don't end up getting the magnesium-related benefits you want from this batch of the product, you can always pick one up that does not include calcium next time. it's kind of good to switch things up here and there with supplements.

any updates on getting bloodwork done? can't remember where you were at with that side of things.

I have already had my blood work results back....I posted them and we talked about them a while ago.
I need to have my vit D and iron rechecked soon....I hope the deficiencies are gone..

heya that's what i was curious about - if you have follow up testing coming down the pipe.

also what's your entire daily supplement regimen now? was it your doc that got snippy and might not test again? it was wasn't it! i'm just scrolling back quickly. did you manage to find a new GP?

and, i know you're busy and excited but overall how have you been feeling symptom-wise, would you say, compared to a couple months ago?

Hey Jimmylegs, how are you?

So..the wedding has passed...everything was perfect.
I felt really good the whole time....really happy about that..

Couple of days ago though I started noticing some pain and weakness in my left arm...this is the one with the cubital tunnel that stopped hurting for a while...well...it's back...I also noticed similar kind of pain in my neck and behind the shoulder blade area (also, area that hurt prior to starting the vits and minerals).
Overall feeling,,,can't say it's too great at the moment...I'm thankful we had a wonderful wedding and a grat time with the family...I think that is what I was the most afraid of...getting sick in the middile of it all...

Here's my supplement regimen at the moment:
50000 IU vit D2 once a week
Natural Calm (Mg + Ca) once in the morning.....I'm taking half of the recommended dose (which provides 160 mg Mg and 105 mg Ca)....might not be enough....
I noticed that if I take Zn by itself or Zn and the Natural Calm at the same time I feel quite weak after a while....it's really weird...it almost seems like the Zn makes me sick.....i though maybe I was taking too much (30 mg + 2 Cu) so i switched to 15 mg + 1mg Cu every other day....can't say I feel any different..
I also eat 2 Tbsp of flaxeeds every day,
I also take 600 EPA 460 DHA - 1 capsule daily
I was taking the Iron supplement that came with the B-complex twice a day...it provided a whole lot of B-complex and 100% DV of iron.....but because it was in a liquid form, I was not able to take it with me to Jamaica...so i switched to just Iron chewable tablets.

I am not taking any selenium nor vit E8 complex so I'm thinking of starting to take some.
I saw a lot of the supplements are selenium + vit E combined....are they efficient?....or should I take them separately?

A lot of the mornings I wake up with shaky hands....it seems to go away a short while after I take the Mg + Ca.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong...is it the Mg? could it be the Zn?...selenium?...some help on this would be greatly appreciated!!

I retested the vit D and iron....waiting for the results...

ttyl

hey there, i'm fine thanks, congratulations!!

so as for how you feel now, can i ask why you changed from 5000 IU D3 per day to 50,000 IU D2 per week? research suggests that 10,000 IU is some sort of physiological limit.

your zinc was 15.3 umol/L so you didn't have that far to go to be close to the top of the range. considering that you made pro-zinc dietary changes also, and are taking more zinc but also some iron, which competes with zinc, a serum zinc test would be a great thing to have.

glad the mag and cal are helping with the am shakiness. i suspect that the way you're doing the d2 may be causing things to go a bit squirrelly. vit D is a hog for calcium and magnesium. i agree with you that the amount could be an issue - perhaps you'd do better taking a second dose of natural calm in the evening.

good work on your fatty acids. as for vit e and Se i haven't ever bought them in a combo pill, but you do see the two paired up in research often. personally i like to buy them separately, and switch up whether i take them together or apart.

looking forward to hearing back re the D3. hope you can arrange a zinc test!

Hey Jimmylegs,

The reason I swithed from the 5000 IU D3/day to the 50000 IU D2/week was simply because my GP recommended it....I probably should've stuck with the D3...

My Zn was 100 mcg/dL last time I checked it....actually the only time I checked it...not sure if the value you have above converts to the same value I have.

I started taking 15 mg Zn with 1 mg Cu every other day...we'll see how that goes....what do you think?

One thing I noticed...this weekend the weather was gorgeous so I was out in the sun almost all day saturday and sunday.....it felt great!!!
I felt energized the whole day...i did take the Mg + Ca both mornings together with the Iron and B-complex, just like I normally do....but I'm pretty sure it was the sun (vit D!!) that helped a lot!

The only thing that was unconfortable was the eye pain/headache that seemed to have gotten worse with the warm weather...still somewhat tolerable though...

My GP sent me the results from the Iron retest:
Result Std Range Units
TRANSFERRIN 195 192 - 382 mg/dL
IRON, SERUM 43 40 - 155 mcg/dL
Iron Binding Capacity, Direct 273 270 - 535 mcg/dL
Transferrin Saturation, Direct 16 10 - 45 %

They are slightly higher than last time but I think I still have to supplement...will continue taking the Iron + B-complex combo..

Still waiting on the Vit D results....

Jimmylegs, how do you feel these days? Do you ever get bad days? where no matter what supplements you take, nothing seems to work....

Thanks for all your help!!

ttyl