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Bladder Spasms, please help
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:37 pm
by Jim_P
I have trouble urinating... certain things relieve the spasms that prevent me from urinating, but I haven't found a really solid way of treating this.
Is there ANYTHING out there that could possibly help me urinate better? Some sort of natural remedy?
Glucosamine helped me somewhat with urinating, but didn't relieve it as much as I expected in the end.
Anyway, please help!
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:43 pm
by Loobie
Hey Jim,
I have quit taking the Glucosamine, but I have some hopefully helpful advice concerning "getting it out". One of my biggest bladder issues is that I only void about 4-5 oz. per void. The best thing I do to even get that much out is called the Crede maneuver (pronounced Cru-day). You can Google it, but basically it is pushing on your bladder to keep the void going. You don't want to do it too hard, but a series of short, firm taps gets about twice what I would get out if I did not do it.
One other one that even works better for me: After I dribble about 2oz. out, I squeeze with the muscles that you would use to hold back a pee; clenching if you will. And then relax fully. I usually can get two or even three more streams by doing that. I also pull down on old Willy right at the relaxing point and I think that helps also.
I go through these gyrations every time I pee. If I just tucked it away after the first stream was done, I'd have only peed about and oz and a half. I was terribly worried that I was leaving too much in my bladder. I started measuring my output and by going about 25 - 20 times before noon, I was really emptying pretty well. It's just that my bladder never is empty, but I guess it's OK since I "change it out" regularly over the course of a day, just not all at one standing.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:41 pm
by Jim_P
Hi again Loobie.
I can almost completely empty it when I have a bowel movement. I have trained my bowel muscles to push the bladder and the stream continues until it cannot.
I just wish I didn't have to force myself to take a dump with soppositories 5 or 6 times a day.
Although that works, I'd like to be able to pee standing once again like I could a month ago. I got it back for a while and now it's settled back into hell.
I've tried the method you describe, but it doesn't work for me. I do squat which sometimes works, but the best is a bowel movement
I wish there was something that could calm the spasm that closes off my bladder neck.
I have the same exact problem as you do. It takes several times to get a "comfortable" amount out.
I'm not worried about infection cause I'm constantly drinking 100% cranberry juice as well as parsley tea, which I make on a regular basis. Also pop cranberry pills. No stink about my piss, thank God
Does a bowel movement do it for you?
I am afraid of the day I lose total control of my bowel muscles. I already cannot go at all unless I have soppositories and then if I don't finish and ironically, I shit myself. Go figure
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:49 pm
by Loobie
Jim,
If you are taking suppositories 5-6 times a day, that could get REALLY habit forming. I hope they are glycerine ones, because if you are Dulcolaxing that often you are going to mess your bowels up bad. I know, they are already messed up, but that sounds like a lot of laxative if it's not just glycerine. Have you established a regular "bowel routine"? By that I mean establishing a regular time to sit on the pot about 1/2 hour after you eat and trying to train yourself. I started doing that a few years ago and it helped immensely. I use the glycerine ones if I don't have a movement after two or three days. From the drastic measures you are taking, you might want to consider Intermittent Catheterization. Apparently it's not as bad as it sounds, and if you are taking laxatives just to pee, I would think about it long and hard. I corresponded with someone on here about IC, and he said once you get over the mental part, it's really not that painful. I guess relaxing is the key to making it go smoothly. I've never done it yet, but I have them if need be and will pull the trigger quick if I'm not emptying.
I really want to caution you about that many laxatives; especially if you are using them just so you can pee and not for having a BM. I feel like I'm lecturing you here, but that's not my intent. My wife is almost an RN and I told her about the suppositories and she about fainted. Please tell me they are glycerine and not a stimulant. She said that people who use active laxatives that often can completely lose their ability to move waste through their body.
I hope you find some relief soon, that sounds like it really sucks.
Lew
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:32 pm
by jimmylegs
this is just one of the things i'm onto in my regimen topic. i'll copy it here because they specifically mention urinary spasm, and so many other oh-so-familiar feelings that we enjoy!
i can't nail down the elusive baker article exactly but it could be this one,
"Who ignores individuality fails the patient" which comes up in pubmed.
Symptoms of Magnesium Deficiency?
What are some of the symptoms of magnesium deficiency? They are outlined beautifully in a recent article by Dr. Sidney Baker. Magnesium deficiency can affect virtually every organ system of the body. With regard to skeletal muscle, one may experience twitches, cramps, muscle tension, muscle soreness, including back aches, neck pain, tension headaches and jaw joint (or TMJ) dysfunction. Also, one may experience chest tightness or a peculiar sensation that he can't take a deep breath. Sometimes a person may sigh a lot.
Symptoms involving impaired contraction of smooth muscles include constipation; urinary spasms; menstrual cramps; difficulty swallowing or a lump in the throat-especially provoked by eating sugar; photophobia, especially difficulty adjusting to oncoming bright headlights in the absence of eye disease; and loud noise sensitivity from stapedius muscle tension in the ear.
Continuing with the symptoms of magnesium deficiency, the central nervous system is markedly affected. Symptoms include insomnia, anxiety, hyperactivity and restlessness with constant movement, panic attacks, agoraphobia, and premenstrual irritability. Magnesium deficiency symptoms involving the peripheral nervous system include numbness, tingling, and other abnormal sensations, such as zips, zaps and vibratory sensations.
Symptoms or signs of the cardiovascular system include palpitations, heart arrhythmias, angina due to spasms of the coronary arteries, high blood pressure and mitral valve prolapse. Be aware that not all of the symptoms need to be present to presume magnesium deficiency; but, many of them often occur together. For example, people with mitral valve prolapse frequently have palpitations, anxiety, panic attacks and premenstrual symptoms. People with magnesium deficiency often seem to be "uptight." Other general symptoms include a salt craving, both carbohydrate craving and carbohydrate intolerance, especially of chocolate, and breast tenderness.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:46 pm
by Jim_P
I've been taking Magnesium every day, but I'm not sure if two pills is too much or too little. It seems to slightly help my abdominal spasm, but lots of glucosamine works better. I'm thinking that a couple years down the line I will see some massive improvements. I keep believing.
11 of 14 (the majority) children responded greatly to acytl glucosamine for a colon auto immune disease. They noticed the improvements after three years of taking it.
I'm not giving that up now..
Anyway.............. about the urinating
No worries, of course I use glycerin soppositories.
And here's a fact for you, if I only use one, it melts then I have a liquid shit, which also means no urine comes out.
When I insert 3-4, the bowel movement comes instantly. Then, I get instant bladder emptying gratification.
I probably have the cleanest colon on the block at this point!
I'm not at all afraid of using 4, but I am afraid of using one, because it'll sit there ALL night and melts and causes complications.
catheterization is NOT an option I am willing to take.
Because I have parashtesia inside my urethra catheters hurt like you would absolutely not believe. Not an option in my book. I will stop at nothing to find another method if the bowel movement stops stimulating my urine stream.
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:49 pm
by Jim_P
Also, I believe that regular muscle spasms and the spasms which happen in the organs are run by different trains, are they not?
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:36 am
by CureOrBust
Jim_P wrote:I will stop at nothing to find another method if the bowel movement stops stimulating my urine stream.
I find jumping on the spot (while holding a door frame for balance) works very well for me. Have you tried this?
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:50 am
by Jim_P
Hmmmm, I'll give it a go. It may just make me suck it back up though, we shall see...
Never thought of this, thanks for the idea!
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:51 am
by Jim_P
hahaha! I just had this image in my head of being in a public bathroom jumping up and down and someone catching me doing it. hah!
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:10 am
by Loobie
Jim,
I am glad you followed up on the glycerine thing. I had visions of you using an entire "6 pack" of Dulcolax everyday and was very relieved to hear you say it wasn't. I'm going to go off on a sidebar here about NAG if you don't mind. I felt like that stuff "took the edge off" when I first started using it. I went through about 5 tubs of the Ultimate and then a couple of bottles of the Source Naturals. After about 2 months, my joints started hurting; specifically my knee joints. I stopped and it went away. Now does that mean that it was causing that? Heavens no, but it did go away when I stopped. I haven't felt like I got any worse since I quit taking it. I just wanted to know if you felt like your joints were ever flared up by NAG? Other than that, after the first few weeks of feeling like it may be doing something, it felt completely inert.
If you don't mind, let me know the answer to that. Like I said, I don't know if it was doing any good, but I don't feel like it was detrimental either except for maybe some knee pain that I don't really know was caused by it.
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:11 am
by jimmylegs
hi jim when you say 2 mg pills per day, how many mg total is that, and in what form?
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:25 am
by Terry
Hi Jim_p
I called my mother yesterday and asked her to look for some info for me. My dad has cancer and the chemo messed with many parts of his body, including his bladder. He had a "bladder stimulator" put in last year. When the tech was with him, he told my dad that because of his age it might not work, but the company has had much success with accident victims and MS patients. For dad, it did not work so well. Too old and too much damage to his bladder, I suppose. What it is supposed to do is stimulate a nerve that runs down the lower back.
Mom found this info for me. At the time my dad had his put in, there were only 2 doctor in the Cincinnati area doing this procedure, so if you are interested, you may have to hunt for someone to do this for you.
The company is Medtronic.
710 Medtronic Parkway
Minneanpolis, Mn 55432-5604
ph 1-763-505-5000
www.medtronic.com
click on health information then "bladder problems".
Terry
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:50 am
by Jim_P
Terry- I'm honestly not ready to travel down these invasive roads. What you've talked about I've read about. I can only see it doing more damage in the long run. My cystoscopy caused enough problems with my urinary tract nerves that I could scream.
Cure- I'll have to double check the milligrams.
How much are you consuming and is it possible to have complications doing so?
Loobie - I from time to time notice a slight pain in my teeth after taking acetyl glucosamine and in fact my last wisdom tooth grew in at an abnormally rapid rate after a couple months of taking it.
If I notice any pains in my joints I'll probably give it up too. But, I'm going to ride with it as long as possible.
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:18 pm
by jimmylegs
the recommendation i've heard is for 600mg per day. i also hear it's best to take at night.
there are a couple people on the boards here using a product called Natural Calm, which i haven't found for myself yet. might end up buying online.
the form of magnesium used is important.
the less easily absorbed forms tend to make you need to poop NOW, once you get up into the 600 range. for absorption i hear good things about amino acid chelated magnesium, and also supposed to work well with B6/B-complex.
if you take any vitamin d / calcium / magnesium / zinc pills, you can still benefit from magnesium taken at a different time from the vitamin d.
jim i'm curious - have you ever had your magnesium and zinc levels tested?