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Very interesting...
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 7:37 am
by raven
I can't comment on this but find it intriguing. If this treatment really works....!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1363260,00.html
Robin
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:10 am
by adjanimals
I'll comment.
At least someone is trying things. Yes, there are ethical and moral issues.
But like the article states, sonething good from something bad.
Just remember, the Chinese and Japanese have some wild remedies that go back thousand of years.
Don't bet on anything even close to what there are doing in China to be tried here in the US. Not with our money hungary doctors and phamecuticals. Bush would never allow it.
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:47 am
by Arron
Yowza... great post, great story. It certainly makes the bitter divide over this issue in America seem futile, if nothing else.
I'll admit though, the part about popping through the guy's skull was a little too graphic!
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:05 pm
by Daunted
Very interesting stuff. Hopefully this will be disseminated out of China as it is perfected...?
I know it would never come to America, but I can easily envision clinics in some European or Asian countries.
Watched a short piece about in on the TV last night
Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:07 pm
by Nemotoday
There was a mini documentary on the UK Television as part of Newsnight yesterday.
In brief summary.
The treatment cost is around $20K and seems to be geared to ALS and spinal injuries.
The clinic is part of a main hospital in Beijing and the operating theatres as with the wards are pretty basic.
Dr Huang Hongyun also made an interesting comment upon blind and placebo trials, wherein he intimated that to open the skulls of his patients and give them a placebo rather than the real thing would be harmful and not in their interest.
It was admitted that two people in the advance stages of ALS (Lou Gherigs disease) passed on at the clinic recently, but the before and after on camera interviews with the patients was impressive.
Dr Huang Hongyun comes across as a real nice guy and he apparently gets $500 a month regardless of how many patients treated.
A senior consultant at Queen Annes Square, (Can't remember his name) commented that a similar project using the patients own olfactory cells is being worked on now and will likely be in trials in about 3 years.
As with all things though too many people will die whilst the politicians and theoretical Doctors pontificate.
Good luck and take care
Nemo
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:49 am
by raven
When I first found and posted the article at the start of this thread I was extremely skeptical. There have been many claims of 'miraculous' treatments in the past, none of which have held up under the light of day.
Having done some searching around I'm not so sure anymore. The following is an extract taken from the Yale center for neuroscience and Regeneration.
Restoration of Function by Cell Transplantation
Another major research effort at the Center focuses on strategies to remyelinate the demyelinated axons of the spinal cord by transplantation of myelin-forming cells into the site of lesion. It is now well established that following non-penetrating spinal cord injury, some axons still maintain continuity through the injury but fail to conduct as a result of damage to their myelin sheaths. Demyelination is a major cause of the symptoms seen in patients with multiple sclerosis and certain types of spinal cord injury.
The lipid-rich myelin sheath is produced by the surrounding Schwann cells in the peripheral nerves and by oligodendrocytes in the brain and spinal cord. We have used a variety of myelin forming cells including Schwann cells and olfactory ensheathing cells to successfully remyelinate the experimentally demyelinated axons of adult rat spinal cord. These remyelinated axons also recover their function as determined by electrophysiological recordings. In addition, we have demonstrated for the first time that human olfactory ensheathing cells can indeed remyelinate and restore conduction in demyelinated rat spinal cord. Current efforts are focussed on establishing the appropriate parameters to maximize the extent of remyelination using this strategy and on xenotransplantation using myelin-forming cells from transgenic pigs expressing human cell surface proteins. Our aim is to ultimately use engineered cells from transgenic animals in order to minimize tissue rejection and maximize tissue availability. We have also successfully demonstrated that axonal regrowth of transected spinal cord axons can be achieved by transplantation of olfactory ensheathing cells and Schwann cells. The results of our preliminary cell transplantation studies are extremely encouraging and efforts are underway to explore the potential of this strategy in human clinical studies.
http://info.med.yale.edu/neurol/pva-epv ... ject3.html
Probably like most of us here, I find the current treatments to slow the progression of MS encouraging. However what I really hope for is restitution, I want back the functionality that I have lost. Playing fantasy head of the NMSS for a moment, I would be directing a large proportion of the resources available into research like this.
Robin
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:51 am
by OddDuck
Playing fantasy head of the NMSS for a moment, I would be directing a large proportion of the resources available into research like this.
The NMSS is, Robin. At least here in the states. But then you've got the other MS patient side, who also wants a large portion of research funds to go toward stopping the demyelination in the first place.
Remember, even remyelination and regeneration isn't solving everything.
And like I said, just this past year, in the U.S., the NMSS put out a large call and "Research Alert" (for lack of another term) to any and all researchers to partner up with others (in other countries, also), and submit research proposals for just that very subject. Regeneration and remyelination. (I tried to get my former buddy neuro to apply, even!!!!!) I communicated with the NMSS here in New York regarding that very research proposal, too.
So.......in any event, they are. Quite a huge chunk has gone toward that.
Deb
EDIT: And as a lot of others here have attested to, in a lot of cases, you CAN regain a lot of lost function (I'm a perfect example), but it takes really hard work, dedication, and positive attitude.
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:15 am
by raven
Using the NMSS's own funding data:
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/pdf/re ... search.pdf
19% of total expenditure is directed towards research, of which 60% is directed towards research grants. Of the research funding 28% is directed towards Myelin biology / CNS repair.
Which gives us the grand total of
3.192% of total expenditure directed towards this avenue.
We can also look at the latest project funding:
http://www.nationalmssociety.org/%5Cpdf ... search.pdf
Of the projects listed only one is related in any way to stem cell research and CNS repair.
Robin
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:17 pm
by OddDuck
Stop it!
You can look at "numbers", Robin, or you can look at it the way I do. We can "quibble" numbers and stats all day. You know that doesn't mean all that much.
I wasn't speaking from an intellectual angle at all, and you know it.
And you also know that "stem cell" research can't be done in the states. Not to any extreme anyway. That research is going to have to come from the Netherlands or China, that to me, appear to be the top two countries leading the way with that type of research.
I can "prove" what I'm referring to here by posting and linking and disagreeing, but you know me (and should trust me) well enough by now to know I don't need to and am not going to.
(I sound mean right now, folks, but Robin knows I'm really not being mean.)
So........Hugs, Robin!
Deb
EDIT: So, ok......to avoid any argument or hard feelings, I concede. You're right, Robin.
SECOND EDIT: Oh...I see! The confusion may be that you posted first about stem cell research and THEN posted about remyelination and regeneration research.....two different subjects. I don't combine those two as one. There is LOTS of research going on regarding remyelination and regeneration that does not involve stem cells, Robin.
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:19 am
by raven
So, ok......to avoid any argument or hard feelings
There won't be any hard feelings Deb, I have opinions, it would be a very dull world if they were the only opinions.
Actually my comment about the NMSS was a throwaway, more intended to show my opinion on where the eventual 'cure' will be found, than to comment on NMSS funding. However I do believe that the NMSS is not as 'cure' focussed as it could be. I have no intention of starting an argument over that point. It has been stated in other threads and to further discuss it would serve no purpose.
Have a hug back
Robin
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:34 am
by OddDuck
Robin,
I agree. And as a wise man once said:
"...the validity of statistical interpretations is always a moot point."
Deb
Stem cells
Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:39 pm
by ramairdad
I would like to volenteer for stem cell research here in the US,If there is any! I can see that this is our only hope for remylination .