This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

jimmylegs wrote:http://www.thisisms.com/forum/regimens- ... ml#p185808
"Severe Hypercalcemia Following Vitamin D Supplementation in a Patient With Multiple Sclerosis - A Note of Caution"

In this case we are talking about a person taking additive effect of 5500 IU of cholecalciferol and 2020 mg of calcium daily.

This is almost twice the RDA for her age.

Calcium RDA
The RDA is the minimum requirement for health from all sources and we should all be aware that DIETARY calcium sources compared to supplements are better used by the body which is why these are listed first in the details at the above link.

We should also be aware that when we increase Vitamin D status our ability to absorb calcium from food/water increases about 4 times so at the same time we need to REDUCE our reliance on calcium supplements. We should also be aware that calcium supplements are linked to increased stroke risk. So it makes sense to REDUCE or LIMIT calcium from supplements to no more than 600mg daily while of course ensuring the RDA for calcium is met in total with the balance coming from Food and water.
When considering calcium we have to understand the basics of how it is used by both muscles fibers and brain neurons. Calcium tenses the muscle fibre and excites the brain neurone. to counterbalance these actions we use MAGNESIUM to relax the muscle and calm the neuron. So in order to maintain that balance we need virtually as much magnesium as we do calcium. Unfortunately modern farming techniques don't ensure any of our foods now have as much magnesium as would have been the case just 50 yrs ago. It's a combination of plant breeding and fertilizer use and the fact that many crops are now faster maturing. We also have the problem that the use of HFCS (found now in many foods with various names glucose/fructose syrup) actually depletes magnesium status.
So not only do most people fall short of the
RDA for MAGNESIUM

We are almost all consuming drinks/foods containing HFCS derivatives that actually cause us to excrete magnesium faster than before.
So the problem with Hypercalcemia is NOT from the Vitamin D3, it's the OVERUSE of supplemental calcium in people who are MAGNESIUM DEFICIENT.

If we want to prevent people having too much calcium in the blood we need to ensure they are only obtaining the RDA for calcium and not consuming more than is necessary or desirable and that this is balanced by at least the RDA for magnesium and they aren't consuming (mainly drinking fizzy drinks like Coke or energy drinks sweetened with HFCS or it's pseudonyms) It also helps to keep calcium where it should be stored in bones, by checking Vitamin K sources. Do remember vitamin D and Vitamin K are fat soluble vitamins so consuming a low fat diet may increase deficiency in fat soluble vitamins.

A more accurate and honest headline should have been Severe Hypercalcemia Following Toxic Calcium Supplementation in a Patient With Multiple Sclerosis - A Note of Caution particularly for those who remain Magnesium Deficient.

Recent 5 year study says Vit D levels are inversely associated with MS activity on brain activity.
(higher Vit D level = less relapses/disability)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22926855

yep - within limits of course. also i personally can't take calcium supplements, i can feel my levels going too high in relation to magnesium when i do. i take d3 and get lots of calcium from food - for me that's enough. if i don't take enough magnesium i get into trouble

Vitamin D-3 is one of the more important nutrients, but all are important and are made more potent working together. Vitamin C is the keystone that makes all the others nutrients more effective and they in turn does the same for vitamin C. There are many thousands of nutrients. Seven hundred carotenes alone and counting. Oils and fats are important. Like most over processed foods vegetable oils are toxic. Olive oil and cocoanut oil are best and have many nutrients, Coconut oil has been found to cure Alzheimer disease in one documented case and is now being researched for other mental diseases. Variety is the spice of health. Processed sugars are the barnacles of lives that end up in a doctors office getting a prescription for drugs.

High vitamin D may prevent multiple sclerosis
"With each doubling of the serum 25-OH-D concentration the exacerbation rate decreased by 27%,

and zinc status has a lot to do with ability to absorb d3. i've learned not to look at any nutrient as an independent actor..

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but thought it worth a mention.
I saw this video recently:

The speaker is a neurologist, whose work led her into sleep disorders and then she discovered a connection to Vitamin D levels.
her hypothesis is basically that Vitamin D deficiency results in sleep disorders which then predisposes the body to a variety of chronic conditions.
It is well known that sleep is the primary time for growth, repair and healing and if sleep is disturbed, even if one doesn't actually wake up, then this process is halted and there is then a situation of cumulative degeneration of the body's health status.
This begins to make much more sense when you consider that Vitamin D is more of a Hormone and not a Vitamin and has receptors throughout the body and brain that have nothing to do with calcium homeostasis, and with that then one needs to consider what the optimum Vitamin D levels are in relation to being a regulatory hormone.
The theory is that it is a crucial seasonal regulator adjusting both our metabolism and breeding behaviours in relation to available UVB, so in summer levels are elevated and we eat more work harder and sleep less, whereas in winter there is a downregulation and the situation is reversed in order to conserve energy and match metabolism to food supply. With chronic populationwide deficiencies, sociotally enforced through "Sun Phobia" everyone is living in a "perpetual winter" and the association with chronic diseases of all sorts is easily explained by this situation.
It is not that vitamin D deficiency causes any of these conditions, it just contributes to the poor environment which allows any genetic predisposition or weakness to manifest.
Below are some of the links I have looked at, but I would highly reccomend that anyone interested take the time to watch the above video, it is not specifically MS, although she does mention MS towards the end, I do think it has significant relevance.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/pro ... -his-time/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0X94900353
http://www.direct-ms.org/sites/default/ ... Immune.PDF
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1804001176
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1804001176

Here is something to consider re vit D supplementation.
I supplement at 4000 to 6000 iu/ day. I had to stop supplementing calcium with it
and start taking more magnesium because I was getting pain in my arms and legs.
Apparently hypercalcemia, too much calcium, is something to manage if you
use high dose vitamin D. Vitamin D is clearly a good thing, but not without risks.
If anyone has more sophisticated thoughts on how to manage it, I would love to hear them.

Severe hypercalcemia following vitamin d supplementation in a patient with multiple sclerosis: a note of caution.
Marcus JF, Shalev SM, Harris CA, Goodin DS, Josephson SA.
Source
Department of Neurology, University of California, San Francisco, 350 Parnassus Ave, 908, PO Box 0114, San Francisco, CA 94143, USA. Jacqueline.marcus@ucsf.edu
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To describe a patient with multiple sclerosis (MS) who developed severe hypercalcemia, attributed to the additive effect of 5500 IU of cholecalciferol and 2020 mg of calcium daily.
DESIGN:
Case report.
SETTING:
University hospital.
PATIENT:
A 58-year-old woman with MS and osteoporosis presenting with acute-onset tremors and confusion.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:
Serum calcium and 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels.
RESULTS:
The patient's corrected serum calcium level was 15.2 mg/dL (reference range, 8.7-10.1 mg/dL; to convert to millimoles per liter, multiply by 0.25), and her 25-hydroxyvitamin D level was 103 ng/mL (to convert to nanomoles per liter, multiply by 2.496). The results of extensive laboratory tests to rule out hyperparathyroidism, malignant neoplasms, and other causes of hypercalcemia were unrevealing.
CONCLUSIONS:
It is common practice to prescribe high-dose cholecalciferol to MS patients for its possible role in immunomodulation and relapse-rate reduction. Nevertheless, cholecalciferol may increase serum calcium, and there seems to be an additive effect when patients simultaneously use calcium supplements. This case underscores the need for physicians to be attentive to the possibility of hypercalcemia in patients treated with both high-dose cholecalciferol and calcium.

I can't take calcium with vit d, I get enough in diet and I found supplementing gave me an ache, I can only assume in my kidneys...? I've had a very bad time in the past by driving down magnesium levels through excess d3 supplementation.
monitoring serum levels of nutrients while supplementing is how I like to approach the issue. I don't often test calcium but when I have, it's been fine. I do have to make an effort where magnesium is concerned.
my 'key nutrients' post (see address below) has all the details on how I deal with balancing nutrition for ms.

Jimmylegs, no doubt.

Supplementing magnesium and cutting calcium has seemed to work for me too. I'm still taking D3. I'm less precise about measuring than you are, for lack of a friendly lab. But I hadn't heard of this issue before.

yea the vit d3 push is so new to the mainstream that it probably will take a while for the mineral balancing piece to get into the messaging too. how long have we been hearing about calcium calcium calcium with relative silence on the magnesium front, ages..

Hmmm. Just discovered this separate thread on Vitamin D. Oh dear.

I've just added a new note on the recent study showing that vitamin D3 plus calcitriol is 100% effective in reversing EAE in mice and causing what appears to be complete remission.

Squeakycat, hi: I've been following your posts on vitamin D (particularly D3 + calcitriol) and also researching it on my own on behalf of my adult son who was diagnosed with MS. In concert with my advice, his own research has led him to forego DMD's for the present (10 months, now) and self-treat with diet and supplementation, the only non-"natural" product being LDN. He has been feeling relatively well, working part-time and handling housework and parenting (2 young boys) quite well. Partly on his suspicions and partly in an attempt to cover all the bases, he had his blood tested for Lyme by Igenex. Just today he received word from his doctor that the tests done by Igenex show numerous bands highly indicative of Lyme, and that in his opinion (the doctor's), leave no doubt my son has Lyme disease. My thinking is that (if this doctor is amenable, and no harm would come from a short delay in the standard antibiotic treatment) treatment with the "one dose calcitriol and followup D3 supplementation" protocol should be considered. Two questions: 1.) Have you established any dosage levels at this time? 2.) My research has led me to conclude that vitamin K2 is integral to the proper interplay of calcium and vitamin D. Have you looked into this?

grandsons4 wrote:Just today he received word from his doctor that the tests done by Igenex show numerous bands highly indicative of Lyme, and that in his opinion (the doctor's), leave no doubt my son has Lyme disease. My thinking is that (if this doctor is amenable, and no harm would come from a short delay in the standard antibiotic treatment) treatment with the "one dose calcitriol and followup D3 supplementation" protocol should be considered. Two questions: 1.) Have you established any dosage levels at this time? 2.) My research has led me to conclude that vitamin K2 is integral to the proper interplay of calcium and vitamin D. Have you looked into this?

I know nothing about K2.

I also don't know that calcitriol + vitamin D3 would have any effect in Lyme's disease. I would be inclined to follow doctor's advice and treat that with antibiotics and not do anything else that might interfere with the treatment.

Of course, it would never hurt and might help to ensure adequate levels of vitamin D, 25(OH)D.

But I have no expertise in this area. I know nothing of Lyme's disease other than that it is hard to detect and often mimics neurological symptoms that are very similar to MS.

Considering the etiology of "MS" is unknown, perhaps Lyme, among other diseases, is MS. Note: my son's D level at onset was below the normal range.