This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

this is indeed a global problem and it's coming down to a discussion of native title rights (or similar depending what country you're in) having to include indigenous knowledge as well as territory.

similar to indigenous peoples having to 'prove' ownership of territory under an imposed foreign system of colonization, now the indigenous caretakers are going to have to 'prove' ownership of knowledge under a foreign world view in order to prevent less ethical and respectful parties from said foreign world view, taking indigenous people's hereditary common right to a resource away.

a modern wave of colonization, how nice.

There have been several discussions about green tea. In addition to its anti-inflammatory properties it apparently also exhibits some neuroprotective properties and if this has been posted before my apologies. I know several of you know a lot about it.

Green tea epigallocatechin-3-gallate mediates T cellular NF-kappa B inhibition and exerts neuroprotection in autoimmune encephalomyelitis (for the scientifically minded the entire article is available via Pub Med)

EGCG was capable of protecting against neuronal injury in living brain tissue induced by N-methyl-D-aspartate or TRAIL and of directly blocking the formation of neurotoxic reactive oxygen species in neurons. Thus, a natural green tea constituent may open up a new therapeutic avenue for young disabled adults with inflammatory brain disease by combining, on one hand, anti-inflammatory and, on the other hand, neuroprotective capacities.

Here's a more recent general abstract from some of the same authors.

Neurodegeneration in autoimmune demyelination: Recent mechanistic insights reveal novel therapeutic targets

I asked someone if green tea (ECGC) was mentioned in this more recent article as something that could potentially target neurodegeneration in people with MS and they assured me it was.

Sharon

Hi,

I found one small study using kawalle for MS here:
<shortened url>

--Frank


Immunological Phenotype and Treatment with Polypodium leucotomos (Kalawalla) in Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Patients

Spanish Society of Neurology, XLVI Annual Symposium

MM Carreño, P Castro, Dept. of Neurology, Navarra University, Pamplona, Spain

Introduction and Obejectives
Several studies have shown the existence of abnormal immunological phenotypes in MS, and more specifically a imbalance in the suppressor function.

Objectives: To determine quantitavive abnormalities in the lymphocyte subpopulation of MS patients, to establish the relationship with the different clinical pictures and to study the response to the treatment with an extract of Polypodium leucotomos.

Patients and Methods: 12 patients, 10 women and 2 men, with well established MS; mean age of 43.7 years; evolution time 6.5 years; treated for one yeat only with an extract of Polypodium leucotomos (360 – 720 mg / day). The immunological phenotype was studied counting the lymphocyte sub population.

Statistical analysis were carried out by non parametric techniques.

Results: More frequent basal immunological alterations were increased CD4 in d LB (62.5%), decreased CD8 suppressors (50%). There was no correlation between the increase in ICD4 in LB – progressive form and decrease ICD8 – relapsing / remitting form. The treatment brought the lymphocyte count to normal in 100% of the patients with increased CD4 in B. the clinical evolution, according to the EDSS scale was: Normal development of course of disease 3 patients (37.5%), stabilization and improvement 5 patients (62.5%) Increased in ICD8 suppressor figures were normalized in 3 patients (50%); worsening was recorder in only 1 patient.

Conclusions
The most frequent immunological alterations of the phenotype in MS are increase L ind B and decreased L supp. They are not related to classical forms. The treatment of Multiple Sclerosis with an extract of Polypodium leucotomos is useful to correct these phenotype imbalance and can contribute to a clinical stabilization.

I actually tried the Kalawalla route for 3-4 months. I can't say I noticed any benefit. I also couldn't find much info about it initially and only my Naturopath had even heard of it. It is apparently effective for certain skin disorders.
Lars

March 1, 2007
Marijuana as wonder drug
The Boston Globe

by Lester Grinspoon

A NEW STUDY in the journal Neurology is being hailed as unassailable proof that marijuana is a valuable medicine. It is a sad commentary on the state of modern medicine - and US drug policy - that we still need "proof" of something that medicine has known for 5,000 years.

The study, from the University of California at San Francisco, found smoked marijuana to be effective at relieving the extreme pain of a debilitating condition known as peripheral neuropathy. It was a study of HIV patients, but a similar type of pain caused by damage to nerves afflicts people with many other illnesses including diabetes and multiple sclerosis. Neuropathic pain is notoriously resistant to treatment with conventional pain drugs. Even powerful and addictive narcotics like morphine and OxyContin often provide little relief. This study leaves no doubt that marijuana can safely ease this type of pain.

As all marijuana research in the United States must be, the new study was conducted with government-supplied marijuana of notoriously poor quality. So it probably underestimated the potential benefit.

This is all good news, but it should not be news at all. In the 40-odd years I have been studying the medicinal uses of marijuana, I have learned that the recorded history of this medicine goes back to ancient times and that in the 19th century it became a well- established Western medicine whose versatility and safety were unquestioned. From 1840 to 1900, American and European medical journals published over 100 papers on the therapeutic uses of marijuana, also known as cannabis.

Of course, our knowledge has advanced greatly over the years. Scientists have identified over 60 unique constituents in marijuana, called cannabinoids, and we have learned much about how they work. We have also learned that our own bodies produce similar chemicals, called endocannabinoids.

The mountain of accumulated anecdotal evidence that pointed the way to the present and other clinical studies also strongly suggests there are a number of other devastating disorders and symptoms for which marijuana has been used for centuries; they deserve the same kind of careful, methodologically sound research. While few such studies have so far been completed, all have lent weight to what medicine already knew but had largely forgotten or ignored: Marijuana is effective at relieving nausea and vomiting, spasticity, appetite loss, certain types of pain, and other debilitating symptoms. And it is extraordinarily safe - safer than most medicines prescribed every day. If marijuana were a new discovery rather than a well-known substance carrying cultural and political baggage, it would be hailed as a wonder drug.

The pharmaceutical industry is scrambling to isolate cannabinoids and synthesize analogs, and to package them in non-smokable forms. In time, companies will almost certainly come up with products and delivery systems that are more useful and less expensive than herbal marijuana. However, the analogs they have produced so far are more expensive than herbal marijuana, and none has shown any improvement over the plant nature gave us to take orally or to smoke.

We live in an antismoking environment. But as a method of delivering certain medicinal compounds, smoking marijuana has some real advantages: The effect is almost instantaneous, allowing the patient, who after all is the best judge, to fine-tune his or her dose to get the needed relief without intoxication. Smoked marijuana has never been demonstrated to have serious pulmonary consequences, but in any case the technology to inhale these cannabinoids without smoking marijuana already exists as vaporizers that allow for smoke- free inhalation.

Hopefully the UCSF study will add to the pressure on the US government to rethink its irrational ban on the medicinal use of marijuana - and its destructive attacks on patients and caregivers in states that have chosen to allow such use. Rather than admit they have been mistaken all these years, federal officials can cite "important new data" and start revamping outdated and destructive policies. The new Congress could go far in establishing its bona fides as both reasonable and compassionate by immediately moving on this issue.

Such legislation would bring much-needed relief to millions of Americans suffering from cancer, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and other debilitating illnesses.

Lester Grinspoon; an emeritus professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School; is the coauthor of "Marijuana; the Forbidden Medicine."



© 2007 New York Times Company.

Good article robbie!

I personally have done years and years of selfless medical research with this substance and can attest that the worst danger it poses is blowing snot on yourself and your friends during the giggles.

I know you won't like this one robbie but outlawing alcohol and decriminalizing MJ would save the lives of countless people who now die in alcohol related accidents.

Bob

outlawing alcohol and decriminalizing MJ

Thats a tough one Bob thats like giving up steak for lobster. lol

I know. Alcohol seems to make MJ more fun.....I mean theraputic.

Seriously, although we're having fun with the situation I can't see a single problem with AT THE VERY LEAST prescribing MJ for people who have a medical need. Next to alcohol it probably has the widest and longest user base in history.

Heck, even though he didn't inhale (yeah, right!) one of the US Presidents was among the testers.

I thought us "baby boomers" were now the "establishment"? I guess I'm having a hard time understanding who exactly these people are who won't legalize it.

Bob

Hi guys - no fits of the giggles now.
I listened to a radio programme last week about ms. One of the things that came up was the therapeutic effects of cannaboids. A short term study had been undertaken (15weeks I think) and the results reported were positive for relief for a range of symptoms inc muscle stiffness and even bladder problems. One of the women interviewed was a mature lady who had never touched Mj before in her life and was v positive about the benefits. A longer study is being undertaken in Plymouth here in the UK to investigate whether cannaboids have neuroprotective qualities.
My neuro is def in the wait and see camp on this one. Should nontheless be interesting.
muu

Hi Muu,
I should move to the UK and become a pharmacist. Every prescription would come with a free "Dark Side of the Moon" CD!
Bob

a range of symptoms inc muscle stiffness and even bladder problems.

Hi Muu all of the above for me and then some. Hope to see a pic soon rob..

I can attest to the fact that it helps relax the bladder. Over many times of trying to quit (god knows why), I know that it helps my bladder. The only bad effect it is having on me lately is that it saps my energy more than it used to. It used to charge me up and I could smoke it all day on the weekends. Now I have to wait until the evening, but it still calms my whole system down and makes me feel like I'm not 'vibrating'.

I truthfully don't care if they legalize it. I think the whole war on drugs is idiotic and 'winless' anyway. If I find something that gives me better quality of life, I am going to find a way to get it. I didn't ask for MS, but for some reason, I can't use what I want for symptom relief? I don't think so, not this kid.

I have to wait until the evening, but it still calms my whole system down and makes me feel like I'm not 'vibrating'.

I truthfully don't care if they legalize it. I think the whole war on drugs is idiotic and 'winless' anyway. If I find something that gives me better quality of life, I am going to find a way to get it.

Same here Loobie

Loobie wrote:I truthfully don't care if they legalize it. I think the whole war on drugs is idiotic and 'winless' anyway.

You will care if you are caught with it and charged with posession. Thats where legalisation will help.

Also, it means others dont have to find dodgy suppliers. You obviously are ok for supply.

You said that it affects you differently now as compared to before. From my visits to the netherlands, talking to friends there, they say there are different types with different effects. If it was legalised, the quality / type could be controlled. The new lethargy you experience is possibly a side effect that could be taken out of a legalise medecin.

Cure,

I think you are right about that. From my vast library of experience I am sure as well that there are different types w/different effects. There is stupid weed, happy weed, and many other types that seem to push forward a "primary effect".

I never thought about what you said in terms of quality control. That sure would be nice. As for getting caught, Ohio turned it into a civil citation offense some years ago. That means if I get caught with up to 100 grams (just under a quarter pound) I basically get a traffic ticket. Still not totally legal, but much closer. Plus I never even have close to that amount anyway.