This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

we share your concern dr dean; a pharmacist spotted my d3-related magnesium deficiency issues in 2008 (while i was asking about something completely unrelated but visibly manifesting symptoms), and i've been sharing the needed advice to members here ever since (plus learning lots more detail along the way).

I'm wondering if anyone has any information on the prevalence of spasticity in people with ms cross-referenced with dates. I have a hunch that the availability and popularity of high dose "vitamin" D supplements may coincide with higher rates of spasticity

Magnesium deficiency regulates vitamin D metabolizing enzymes and type II sodium-phosphate cotransporter mRNA expression in rats.
Matsuzaki H, Katsumata S, Kajita Y, Miwa M
Department of Nutrition, Junior College of Tokyo University of Agriculture, Tokyo 156-8502, Japan.
Magnesium Research : Official Organ of the International Society for the Development of Research on Magnesium [2013, 26(2):83-86]

Abstract
A magnesium (Mg) deficiency induces changes in calcium (Ca) and phosphorus (P) metabolism; however, the mechanisms responsible for these effects remain unclear. Since 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 and type II sodium-phosphate (Na/Pi) cotransporters are essential regulators of Ca and P metabolism, this study examined the effects of Mg deficiency on the mRNA expression of vitamin D metabolizing enzymes (25-hydroxyvitamin D-1α-hydroxylase (1α(OH)ase) and 25-hydroxyvitamin D-24-hydroxylase (24(OH)ase)), and Na/Pi cotransporters (type IIa and IIc) in the rat kidney. Rats were divided into two groups and fed a control diet (Mg concentration: 0.05%) or a Mg-deficient diet (Mg concentration: Mg-free) for 21 days. 1α(OH)ase mRNA levels were significantly decreased in rats fed the Mg-deficient diet, while 24(OH)ase mRNA levels were significantly increased, compared to rats fed the control diet. Type IIa and IIc Na/Pi cotransporter mRNA levels in rats fed the Mg-deficient diet were significantly decreased compared to rats fed the control diet. These results suggest that Mg deficiency induces downregulation of 1α(OH)ase and type IIa and IIc Na/Pi cotransporters, and upregulation of 24(OH)ase in the kidney.

Magnesium, Vitamin D Status and Mortality: results from US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2001 to 2006 and NHANES III
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/187
BMC Med. 2013; 11: 187.
Abstract:
Magnesium plays an essential role in the synthesis and metabolism of vitamin D and magnesium supplementation substantially reversed the resistance to vitamin D treatment in patients with magnesium-dependent vitamin-D-resistant rickets. We hypothesized that dietary magnesium alone, particularly its interaction with vitamin D intake, contributes to serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D) levels, and the associations between serum 25(OH)D and risk of mortality may be modified by magnesium intake level.

research has indicated that the general population is low in mag and that ms patients have even lower mag status to begin with, as well as associated spasticity.

of course if you were to add an unbalanced d3 regimen to that particular picture, you'd logically be asking for trouble and you could expect to see a worsening of symptoms related to low mag status (including one or more of the many possible manifestations of spasticity).

as i've said before, for whatever reason i happened to take mag and calcium with my d3 right from day one - but by taking a small amount, of what turned out to be a relatively insoluble inorganic form, and taking it at the same time as the d3, i ended up with some pretty unpleasant deficiency symptoms. followed, as you may recall, by a raft of very unpleasant magnesium side effects over time, while figuring out the best supplementation form, dose and timing.

re http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... ml#p225057, interesting.
re http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... ml#p225058, definitely seen that one before (it has come up in discussion elsewhere on the site, ie): http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... 5-660.html
dr d you'll probably enjoy (or want to tear your hair out re) the ongoing debate there...

Yes, Jimmylegs, it's astounding that doctors learn nothing about the proper application of nutrients. All they have done so far is give high dose calcium resulting in higher heart disease rates in women, as well as DCIS, gall stones and kidney stones and perpetuating magnesium deficiency. Now, their favorite vitamin is synthetic Vit D. I've gotten reports of seizures, 6-week migraines, angina and worse when mag deficient people go on high dose Vit D.

yep the calcium piece is annoying for sure. i consider myself extremely fortunate to have had medical professionals around me that will order various nutrient tests at my request, so that i can monitor status over the long term.. in spite of (from their perspective) chronically 'normal' results.

Jimmylegs- the multivitamin I take is One A Day Essential (small red caplets I can swallow easier than big horse pills!) Sometimes I buy store brand if I can't find name brand.

JL and Dr. Dean-
My Vitamin D history:
January 2011=23ng/mL Dr. put me on high dose (50,000 I think) for a few days then OTC 1000iu/day
January 2012=40ng/mL
August 2012=47ng/mL
January 2013=48ng/mL upped my dose to 2000iu/day
February 2014=52ng/mL

Are you thinking I should reduce d3 to 1000iu/day?

THX1138 wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has any information on the prevalence of spasticity in people with ms cross-referenced with dates. I have a hunch that the availability and popularity of high dose "vitamin" D supplements may coincide with higher rates ofspasticity

THX
Interesting...I wonder if my worsening spasticity (for me it's mostly stiff legs) coincided with my vitamin d supplementation? I don't know for sure.

hi again lynn

re the multi, i was going to say it's probably marginally better than nothing. but looking at product details, maybe not really :S

one a day: http://labeling.bayercare.com/omr/onlin ... ential.pdf
i particularly dislike their form of vit E.

this is the one i take, for comparison: http://www.aor.ca/wp-content/uploads/20 ... sics-3.pdf

as for your d3 history. i'd say you definitely need to take a long hard look at your mag status! you'd probably be just fine on 1000 IU of d3 per day while you assess your dietary mag intake and any complementary supplemental requirements.

re timing of d3 megadosing and spasticity, there are many variables to consider lynn, and although i personally had mag depletion issues prior to vit d3 supplementation, i definitely had an array of mag related issues worsen and develop after!

THX
Interesting...I wonder if my worsening spasticity (for me it's mostly stiff legs) coincided with my vitamin d supplementation? I don't know for sure.

My spacticity sure increased while I was taking "vitamin" D, but it was so gradual and I had heard such great things about vitamin D that I never suspected it until the spasticity had become rather bad. One of the things that got me to consider that the D was causing magnesium problems was an old post by jimmylegs that said that "d3 is a mag hog".

hahahaha

jimmylegs wrote:hi again lynn

re the multi, i was going to say it's probably marginally better than nothing. but looking at product details, maybe not really :S

one a day: http://labeling.bayercare.com/omr/onlin ... ential.pdf
i particularly dislike their form of vit E.

this is the one i take, for comparison: http://www.aor.ca/wp-content/uploads/20 ... sics-3.pdf

as for your d3 history. i'd say you definitely need to take a long hard look at your mag status! you'd probably be just fine on 1000 IU of d3 per day while you assess your dietary mag intake and any complementary supplemental requirements.

re timing of d3 megadosing and spasticity, there are many variables to consider lynn, and although i personally had mag depletion issues prior to vit d3 supplementation, i definitely had an array of mag related issues worsen and develop after!

Jimmylegs.
Where do you get your multivitamin? Is it taken 3 times/day?!
Do you take any vitamin d supplements?
What about alpha lipoic acid?
Lynn

Lynn62 wrote:What about alpha lipoic acid?

Regarding lipoic acid, you might want to consider the R-lipoic form.

http://www.thisisms.com/forum/natural-a ... tml#p29715

Look for stabilized forms know as sodium r-lipoate.