This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Hi all,
I have been following the wahls diet 100% for 7 months, and have found this medical journal explaining the details of Dr Wahls trials from this year,

It states the patients were told to take the following supplements:

Omega 3 fatty acids - 4 grams daily by mouth. (Pinnaclife Omega 3 fatty acids)
Full Spectrum vitamin - Two capsules daily. (Pinnaclife)
Essential - hydroxytyrosol - Two capsules twice daily.(Pinnaclife Essential)
Maltodextrin fiber supplement - One scoop daily. (Pinnaclife Cleanse)
Mineral boost (magnesium) - Two capsules daily (Pinnaclife Mineral Boost.)
Niacinamide - 500 mg daily
Methyl B12 1000 mcg daily
Taurine - one gram daily
Creatine - one teaspoon daily
Thiamine - 100 mg daily
Riboflavin - 200 mg daily
N acetylcysteine - 1 gram daily
Alpha lipoic acid - 300 mg twice daily
L acetyl carnitine - 500 mg twice daily
Methyl folate - 1000 mcg one pill four times a week
Coenzyme Q - 100 mg daily


the pinnaclife brand in some of these supplements are expensive so would just use cheaper iherb.ciom substitutes


I know Dr Wahls has acheived fantasic results getting out of her wheelchair and cycling, and appreciate many on the diet have not got these results, but i cant help but think taking the above supplements can only help,


So what are others views on this supplement list?
Any that you think shouldnt be taken? or are unnecessary when following such a healthy clean diet in the wahls/paleo diet?



many thanks

Hi, this is actually my first post on this forum. Hope that I can contribute my observations and conclusions over time.

dc10, or any others for that matter, regarding that list in your post above, do you have any updates on positive/negative results?

Sidenote - Another paper published regarding Dr. Wahl's diet noted the use of these supplements: "2 g each of glutathione, N acetyl-cysteine, and taurine daily, and lithium orotate 300 mg twice daily." Also, "Her MS medications included B complex vitamins, carnitine, lipoic acid, gabapentin, bupropion, baclofen, modafanil, mycophenolate, tolterodine, and minocycline." Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769364/
I believe she has had marked improvement, but it's hard to tell what, exactly, is behind it.

dc10 - With regard to the list you posted, I take most of the things you listed. Lipoic Acid, CoQ10, Carnitine, and creatine my favorite based on my own research. I've been feeling much better since starting creatine earlier at the beginning of this year. I believe PwMS could stand to benefit from creatine because ATP is depleted in PwMS and creatine increases ATP (that's why athletes use it to recover). ATP is necessary for normal cell function.

Here is more about ATP and nerve injury. Granted, this is for peripheral injury which is different from CNS injury, but the mechanisms with regard to ATP are the same. This is especially true since the injury discussed here is similar to injury caused in MS -- hypoxic.

During peripheral nerve injury, hypoxia creates several cellular shock stages that could be reversible or irreversible. The reversibility depends on the cell's capability to maintain adenosine-5’-triphosphate (ATP)production. Once ATP production is stopped, the cell can no longer maintain the homeostatic functions.This produces cytotoxic edema and release of calcium by the mitochondria. ATP has many important functions on peripheral nerve repair and regeneration. It is important to maintain cellular functions and is also the energy source for axoplasmic transport. It is indispensable for the transport of nerve growth factors (NGF). There is a potential interplay between ATP and NGF in the signaling pathways triggered on their target cells. ATP has neuritrogenic and trophic effects, which are comparable to those sustained by NGF and involve several overlapping pathways. ATP exerts a protective effect on the neurons, which is valuable for nerve regeneration after nerve injury.

Source:

ikulo, thank you for that! I will report back after my 3 month trial of most of the above, and my full list as well, either here or in an other thread.

The only thing that I'm desperately missing here, as it doesn't seem to be available in Canada or my region oddly enough, is Hydroxytyrosol from Olive tree, which is purportedly, one of the most potent, if potent anti-oxidant now out there.

Although this doesn't seem to be in the list in the 1st post of Dr. Wahls list, I'm also going to as of today, add Bioperine to my diet, to help absorption of Curcumin into the blood stream.

ikulo, are you taking the Lithium Orotate? I haven't added this to my list yet.

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ikulo wrote:Sidenote - Another paper published regarding Dr. Wahl's diet noted the use of these supplements: "2 g each of glutathione, N acetyl-cysteine,........

Ikulo, I'm a little bit confused about something here. I wasn't aware that Glutathione could be taken in pure form, in fact N-acetyl-cysteine would be a precursor to it? I mean, one would take N-acetyl-cysteine to boost Glutathione levels?

Liberation, my list is definitely longer than what I made it out to be. I'll make an official list in an other thread I suppose..

I was recently diagnosed with MS. My symptoms have been a numb left hand for the last 9 years. It has been fairly stable all in all, I mean I can still use it, although playing guitar has gone down the toilet. I think only the last year has it has gone a bit further up my arm(that weird numbness feeling), and a bit worse, and I THINK when I lean over, I can feel some weird sensation trickling down my left leg then it disappears when I stand up straight again.

It took them 9 years to diagnose this, I was told it was carpal tunnel syndrome.

I've had a good diet through out my life all in all, perhaps lacking in fish and sunlight during a short period a decade ago. Now that I know this is MS, I must do everything I can to isolate it, and to keep it from "spreading" if you will, from a numb hand to up my arm, and perhaps something else. No doubt as I said before, this last year, the numbness has become more intense on the left hand, and losing spasticity and gets a bit more tired than the right hand which is still 100%.

questforacure wrote:

ikulo wrote:Sidenote - Another paper published regarding Dr. Wahl's diet noted the use of these supplements: "2 g each of glutathione, N acetyl-cysteine,........

Ikulo, I'm a little bit confused about something here. I wasn't aware that Glutathione could be taken in pure form, in fact N-acetyl-cysteine would be a precursor to it? I mean, one would take N-acetyl-cysteine to boost Glutathione levels?

Some oral forms are bioavailable. These are liposomal preparations of glutathione. One such form is called lipoceutical glutathione. Another absorbable form is prepared as a transdermal patch. However, a quick search at a supplement retailer such as Vitacost only revealed plain L-glutathione and this would likely just get digested since it's a short polypeptide. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the supplement manufacturers and retailers from making and selling it.

Here's a paper which briefly discusses lipoceutical glutathione.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22129897

NHE

Hi Kulo, thanks for the creatine info,
what dose size do you take? daily?

i too had difficulty finding Hydroxytyrosol, but i later found a wild fish oil supplement that included Hydroxytyrosol

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Sup ... gels/23722

but it only contains 5.2mg Hydroxytyrosol per serving so not sure if thats sufficient daiily?

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dc10 wrote:Hi Kulo, thanks for the creatine info,
what dose size do you take? daily?

i too had difficulty finding Hydroxytyrosol, but i later found a wild fish oil supplement that included Hydroxytyrosol

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Sup ... gels/23722

but it only contains 5.2mg Hydroxytyrosol per serving so not sure if thats sufficient daiily?

I bought Hydroxytyrosol from Olives from this place last week. I just received it yesterday.

Read up on them here: http://www.olivenol.my/the-science
Buy from their store here: http://www.olivenolplus.com/studies.shtml

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Liberation wrote:

questforacure wrote:

dc10 wrote:Hi Kulo, thanks for the creatine info,
what dose size do you take? daily?

i too had difficulty finding Hydroxytyrosol, but i later found a wild fish oil supplement that included Hydroxytyrosol

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Sup ... gels/23722

but it only contains 5.2mg Hydroxytyrosol per serving so not sure if thats sufficient daiily?

I bought Hydroxytyrosol from Olives from this place last week. I just received it yesterday.

Read up on them here: http://www.olivenol.my/the-science
Buy from their store here: http://www.olivenolplus.com/studies.shtml

Terry uses Pinnaclife Essential for hydroxytyrosol intake in her ongoing trial that contains Olivamine of 1300 mg with hydroxytyrosol of circa 90 mg. I tried to order it but it seems thay do not deliver to the EU.

The Pinnaclife Olivamine product contains Magnesium Stearate, and other undesirable non-medicinal ingredients which I do not want in my diet period.
If you are of younger age with MS, and plan on taking supplements for many years to come, I would steer away from any supplements with these ingredients.

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I try to make it a rule as to not lecture and dictate certain thing on forums. I like to share knowledge, pass things that I know, absorb from others as well.

On Magnesium Stearate, etc, the studies are quite clear on this. I would like you to do your own research and make up your own mind. Always note and study the non-medicinal ingredients listed on the package. Many of them are used to ease the manufacturing process and nothing else of benefit to you(your body). Sure if you take kind one supplement a day, and are over 50 years of age, it might not matter..... but when someone is say 30, and is taking 15 different supplements a day, for the next 40 years, with the possibility that ALL his supplements contain these aforementioned ingredients, IMHO, perhaps even ironically, you will open up the door to other issues down the line. I really don't want to bring up the big C word as one of them.

That all said, FWIW, Dr. Wahl is up there in age.

It has to be said, the vitamin supplement industry is not as squeaky clean as one initially might make it out to be. Thank God we have choices.