This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Seen on the French forum (ARSEP):

Link: http://www.gizmag.com/ccsvi-multiple-sc ... oni/13447/(one guy spoke about what’s going on in Spain regarding MS and blood flow)

I am an M.S patient for 18 years. And an M.S researches for 10 years. I am electronic engineer and a university teacher. If you look in Google for Dr. Fernandez Noda and the syndrome Cerebellar Thoracic Outlet Syndrome (CTOS) you will find again a strong relation between blood flow in the brain and M.S symptoms. Fernandez Noda looks for global blood flow from the brain. The veins coming from the brain to the heart enter the atlas vertebra and cross to the C6 and C7 vertebra where the veins go out the vertebrae in their way to the heart. In the outgoing they can be squashed by the sternocleido-mastoideos muscles. Dr. Noda makes a simply operation to liberate that pressure and some M.S patient get better.
I am convinced we can find a solution. I do not have so clear that we can make the solution to go on because the opposition from pharmaceuticals will be uninimaginable.
They are earnig bigs amounts of money whith not-a-solution-at-all. And what they do not want at all is loosing theier clients! We are clients, very goog clients, for them -not patients-. I have a web page http://webs.uvigo.es/xuliofh/entrega2/pagPpalEM.html with some information about M.S. (in spanish )

Xulio Fernández Hermida

Seems CCSVI treatments are performed in Spain since ……
why this info was ignored???
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Hi Zen,

This information has been posted few times here.
I think CTOS focuses mainly on the pressure created on the veins due to muscles. But the underlying issue is same -- lack of blood flow.
I personally feel that symptoms caused by CTOS might be less severe than ones caused by vein stenosis as in CCSVI.
I think this technique has not been popular but with CCSVI gaining momentum, this will have more credibility since blood flow as underlying cause will gain more acceptability.

I have taken a look at the article (I am a spanish native speaker) and the doctor claims that MS is due to problems in the carotid arteries that hinders brain blood flow. It is therefore not the same as CCSVI.

Besides this doctor claims that his surgery fixed nearly any neurological problem, but he has not any publication supporting that (Zamboni had several publications before trying the surgery)

I do not find it trustworthy. In fact I think that the lack of rigor of doctors like this one is harming the image of proper researches like Zamboni.

It's not CCSVI treatment. It's the scalenus surgery.

This surgery was very popular at the end of nineties in the spanish-speaking community. I first heard of it on an Argentinian forum in 2002 and I made research after that on spanish forums. The surgery was done in Spain.

Last Friday my sister visited Dr.Castillo in Madrid, who performs surgery to correct CTOS. I was there with her talking to him. As he explained to us, his theory is the one developed by Dr.Fernández Noda.

In the last 20 years, he has found that 70% of the MS patients that he has evaluated using eco-doppler technology, have a vascular CTOS, where the muscle scalene push the vascular structure (especially the vertebral artery) and causes blood flow problems to and from the brain.

To solve the problem, they perform surgery to cut part of the scalene muscle to liberate the opresion to the vascular structure. Many patients have been treated using this technique, I tracked and talked to some of them and the results are astonishing for most of them.

I don't know if this doctor's theory is correct, buy I think he is onto something. Besides, he seemed honest. He checked my sister's neck and diagnosed a clear CTOS, but he didn't recommend surgery as she is in good shape and has no symptoms of ms at the moment (dx 10 years ago). He prescribed physical therapy instead, hoping to create more space for the arteries/veins via massages/osteopathy work.

I have some doubts here: has doctor Zamboni checked arteries, or just the jugular/azygos veins?

Has he studied the cause for the narrowing of veins? If there are muscles involved in the narrowing, wouldn't the balloon angioplasty be useless?

I'd like to hear your opinions.

Javier

Acheron wrote:
I have some doubts here: has doctor Zamboni checked arteries, or just the jugular/azygos veins?

Javier

Hi Javier,

Dr. Zamboni has build up from the previous theory of Dr. Schilder. Therefore he has probably checked only veins. I have never heard or read anything about testing arteries.

But it seems quite reasonable, because MS lesions are vein-centric. If an analogous problem happened in the arteries, somebody would have reported an artery-centric lesion, which has not happened.

It is possible that CTOS and CCSVI are associated and a positive in the first you have high probability of the second, but for sure, they are different conditions. Anyway, it is clear that nobody knows too much about this subject at this moment.

Maybe we could direct Dr Sclafani to this thread,
I would be interested for him to comment,
I wonder whether he would be interested in investigating this further seeing as he is studying CCSVI maybe looking into CTOS won't be a major problem.

I emailed the link to this thread to Dr.S

frodo wrote: It is possible that CTOS and CCSVI are associated and a positive in the first you have high probability of the second, but for sure, they are different conditions. Anyway, it is clear that nobody knows too much about this subject at this moment.

Yes, I agree. Another possibility is that those who tested negative CCSVI in Buffalo have a CTOS, and the way this condition affects brain hemodynamics is the cause or a major factor in their MS.

More doctors should explore blood flow from and to the brain, veins and arteries. The technology exists. I am sure the answer to MS lies in the vascular structures of shoulder/neck area.

I agree Acheron. I hope they explore everything now and get to the bottom of this damn condition finally!!

ZEN posted:

Fernandez Noda looks for global blood flow from the brain. The veins coming from the brain to the heart enter the atlas vertebra and cross to the C6 and C7 vertebra where the veins go out the vertebrae in their way to the heart. In the outgoing they can be squashed by the sternocleido-mastoideos muscles. Dr. Noda makes a simply operation to liberate that pressure and some M.S patient get better.

RE: the veins entering the atlas
I was in an accident years ago--neck and head pain ever since, made worse with some major dental work--then last year neuromuscular dentist picked up that my Atlas was rotated--I viewed this clip:

and took it to chiropractor--who adjusted Atlas, and MS symptoms (brain fog, unending fatigue, Raynaud's, left leg slowness) VERY much better, as is the chronic pain. But also been using IBT since Dec 09, which helped immediately with circulation, feet and hands got feeling and color--raynaud's almost a thing of the past.

I think we are dealing with a number of different areas to and from the brain that if damaged can possibly cause or definitely promote MS. I have also started disodium EDTA infusions (for calcium buildup in carotid artery--picked up on neck x-ray for chiro)--again, feeling better with this, which of course affects the blood INTO the brain.
Yes, started lots of things about the same time, so not good for any type of controlled data--But each thing helped and is helping, some greatly--nothing has set me back. And all impact the blood flow to and from the brain.
My point is that CCSVI is not the only answer, and if indeed you do need CCSVI liberation, you might very well also benefit from these other healing modalities.