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There were a couple of interesting presentations during the last meeting of the American Academy of Neurology (yes, neurology):

IN7-1.003 Quantitative Venous Vasculature Assessment on Susceptibility-Weighted Imaging Reflects Presence of Severe Chronic Venous Insufficiency in the Brain Parenchyma of Multiple Sclerosis Patients. A Case-Control Study

Chronic Cerebrospinal Venous Insufficiency and Multiple Sclerosis: A Paradigm Shift in the Physiology of Cerebral Venous Return

Here is the link:
http://www.bostoncure.org:8080/node/3594

How could CCSVI be related to the immune system, which we know is involved in MS due to genetic studies and effects of immunological treatments?

so that's why neuros 'know'. Becuase the crabs work so well and because the genetic studies are so conclusive... hmmm

Billmeik wrote:

How could CCSVI be related to the immune system, which we know is involved in MS due to genetic studies and effects of immunological treatments?

so that's why neuros 'know'. Becuase the crabs work so well and because the genetic studies are so conclusive... hmmm

Well, in fact they are right about that. The immune system involvement is not mutually exclusive with CCSVI, but complementary instead.

complementary? So you have ccsvi on one hand and an unrelated autoimmune process next to it.

Read Putnam.

Billmeik wrote:complementary? So you have ccsvi on one hand and an unrelated autoimmune process next to it.

Read Putnam.

What I mean is that you have CCSVI, with produces iron accumulation and later immune problems.

I really would like to read Putnam. I haven't find his article. Do you have it?

Does the iron (or hypoxia) cause immune problems or an immune reaction?

What if the immune system is perfectly healthy and just doing its job?

That's what everybody's best guess is at this point.

The immune system is doing it's job attacking dead cells and iron - which build up as a result of CCSVI - breaking through to the CNS and depositing there.

SO the immune system is healthy and doing it's job. It's that we need to clear out the dead/deoxygenated/iron build up of cells in the CNS through liberation ...

And then you'll probably be left with MS (the scars) but the symptoms will fade over time as the body re-routes and repairs its nerve pathways.

the funny thing is--Dr. Zamboni explains how the immune system is activated in CCSVI....just as it is in CVI-

Inflammation in MS is characterized by expression of adhesion molecules,26 followed by a migration of macrophages and T-cells across the BBB. Infiltration of the matrix by macrophages, as in CVD, is considered a crucial step27 (Figure 3A and B). In both situations, macrophages appear with considerable intracellular iron stores due to phagocytosis of senescent erythrocyte. Iron overload in MS plaques has been demonstrated in vivo by MRI.28 In addition, we observed haemosiderin in the urine of patients with active inflammation of MS (personal unpublished data).

Iron-laden macrophages carrying the HFE mutation display increased iron export, increasing the risk of generation of free iron and free radicals, possibly extending tissue lesions.5,6 A study from Australia29 suggests that C282Y-HFE mutation is increased in MS cases of North Western European origin and supports further investigations into the role of iron metabolism in the severity of MS.

As in a venous ulcer, a key determinant of tissue injury is played by MMP9. Exactly as in CVD, the over-expression of MMP9 is insufficiently counterbalanced by its tissue inhibitor TIMP-1. MMP9 can trigger leukocyte transen-dothelial traffic through an altered BBB, and serum active MMP9/TIMP-1 is now considered an appropriate indicator of ongoing MS inflammation.30 Despite histological findings showing haemosiderin deposits encircling the central vein of MS lesions (Figure 2A), the iron-MMP pathway of activation is not considered in MS literature.

http://jrsm.rsmjournals.com/cgi/content/full/99/11/589

Dr. Zamboni never says that the immune system isn't involved. Obviously, it is. He says the immune reaction is secondary. And there is NO proof neurologists can offer that disproves his theory. None. Believe me, they are trying...but there isn't any. That's why they are so freakin' angry. That's why they lie about what he is saying. Chronic venous disease activates the immune system.

For the best write up on the history of the venous connection to MS, with Putnam's dogs, Reindfleisch, et al....read Dr. Haacke's latest breakdown.
http://www.ms-mri.com/history.php

cheer

I see the C282Y gene mentioned in there. You might want to read the work by Maria De Sousa on how lymphocytes regulate the iron metabolism, so iron and the immune system work together. Lymphocytes are drawn to places that iron accumulates and i think they can cross the BBB. New studies have just come out. Other studies just out have shown that people with MS have differences in their lymphocytes compared to normal people.

I come completely back to normal when I have phlebotomy, even a small one for a blood test. The size of the blood draw correlates with how long the remission lasts. All the improvements people are getting from the CCSVI treatment, I get with a simple blood draw. I have one C282Y gene and I also have an abnormally high amount of lymphocytes (because of splenectomy).

I have no final diagnosis, MS or Porphyria? I think I'm sure it's Porphyria, but looking at all this I don't know.

They should study me

I'll add also that now I have reduced my iron levels, my relapses are less severe,I'm getting back to normal. I'd like to go reduce further, but can't get medical support for this (I'm mid normal currently). When I have blood taken, wow, I'm 20 again. (I'm 47).



Immune System And Iron - What Is Going On?
By Catarina Amorim | April 30th 2010

http://www.scientificblogging.com/catar ... what_going

2010: Spanevello Roselia M; Mazzanti Cinthia M; Schmatz Roberta; Thomé Gustavo; Bagatini Margarete; Correa Maisa; Rosa Cintia; Stefanello Naiara; Bellé Luziane Potrich; Moretto Maria B; Oliveira Liliane; Morsch Vera M; Schetinger Maria R C
The activity and expression of NTPDase is altered in lymphocytes of multiple sclerosis patients.
Clinica chimica acta; international journal of clinical chemistry 2010;411(3-4):210-4.

http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.b ... s_patients