This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

Let's discuss this NEW theory on CCSVI.

Maybe Marie or Joan can help.

Is this guy a quack or is he onto something?

I suggest that ALL his posts be read.

http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/

~HP

He's not a quack, Poet...he's a very intelligent chiropractor...and he has many interesting points on the vertebral veins and how humans circulatory systems have evolved as upright creatures. My main point of contention with the Nucca docs and chiropractors addressing CCSVI is that they are not vascular specialists, and do not understand truncular venous malformations. Budd Chiari doesn't develop because of bones blocking the veins, it develops because the vein is congenitally malformed.

There may be many patients with CCSVI that can benefit from cervical/spinal manipulation, but to state that this is the cause of ALL of CCSVI is not correct.

I find it interesting that so many people are coming forward with their own theories of what creates CCSVI (like George Jelinek and his Overcoming MS and all of the alternative health people...) Kind of wish they'd read all the vascular research first.
cheer

cheerleader wrote:He's not a quack, Poet...he's a very intelligent chiropractor...and he has many interesting points on the vertebral veins and how humans circulatory systems have evolved as upright creatures. My main point of contention with the Nucca docs and chiropractors addressing CCSVI is that they are not vascular specialists, and do not understand truncular venous malformations. Budd Chiari doesn't develop because of bones blocking the veins, it develops because the vein is congenitally malformed.

There may be many patients with CCSVI that can benefit from cervical/spinal manipulation, but to state that this is the cause of ALL of CCSVI is not correct.

I find it interesting that so many people are coming forward with their own theories of what creates CCSVI (like George Jelinek and his Overcoming MS and all of the alternative health people...) Kind of wish they'd read all the vascular research first.
cheer

Cheer, thanks very much for the info. I found the anthropology stuff fascinating, but I didn't understand most of what I was reading. I think it's inexcusable that a doctor who writes a blog about something, doesn't take the time to learn about that something, like truncular venous malformations.
Thanks again. Now I'm off to learn what a Nucca doctor is/does.
~Pam

happy poet, don't be too hard on him. i did the nucca for about 4 mo. circumstances i had to quit and i regret to think that if i would of kept it up maybe it would have helped me more. it definitely fixed my tmj and low back pain. i don't think that it is the total answer but for some might be. i know where cheer is coming from and she is right. but, i had to pay out of pocket for an upright mri that i wanted because of questions i had but unfortunately i took them to a neuro and ccsvi was not heard of then. i know laying down and upright definitely makes difference in my movement. multiple----symptoms------multiple people. multiple ways to help. still ccsvi is opening up a lot of great doctors eyes that i hope figure it all out soon. in the meantime we gotta try to keep our head on straight and that is what nucca chiro. does.

Happy Poet-
He is definitely worth following--
Since getting my Atlas adjusted, have been a million times better--
--am also doing lots more re nutrition, chelation, phlebotomy, etc etc--but the crucial defining point for the better was with the adjustments.

shye, could i ask how long you went before results? the nucca chiro. i went to did not use any tools except x-rays and very intense measureing and calculating. but i had seen on tv where a nucca doc used a head device or something to get it very precise. if i remember right he was from new york city. the one i went to used a very gentle touch kinda behind the ear to adjust. it amazed me. did you have much disability when you went? glad to hear you are doing so well.

blossom,

I finally finished reading/understanding (most) everything, and I would definitely have the light tapping procedure done. I'm having venoplasty done, so why not this?

In my younger years I was a downhill skier/racer and took lots of hard falls, so it's not too far-fetched to imagine something is out of alignment in my neck, perhaps starting with the atlas.

Thank you!

~Pam

HappyPoet wrote:blossom,

I finally finished reading/understanding (most) everything, and I would definitely have the light tapping procedure done. I'm having venoplasty done, so why not this?

In my younger years I was a downhill skier/racer and took lots of hard falls, so it's not too far-fetched to imagine something is out of alignment in my neck, perhaps starting with the atlas.

Thank you!

~Pam

Doesn't this not make sense considering the demographics of MS? Why do people in scotland hurt their necks more? Are there places where nobody ever hurts their neck?

Per Cheerleader..

There may be many patients with CCSVI that can benefit from cervical/spinal manipulation, but to state that this is the cause of ALL of CCSVI is not correct.

Per you..

Doesn't this not make sense considering the demographics of MS? Why do people in scotland hurt their necks more? Are there places where nobody ever hurts their neck?

Good question J ..but, could you flip that thought and say that maybe this is one of the reasons that MS may show up in other parts of the world outside the genetic web of the northern hemisphere?

Sorry I posted after checking out the link and I didn't see cheers post.
Yes, you could, providing of course you can prove that venous malformations (or venous obstruction caused by a misaligned spine) have a causative relation to the MS disease process.

Blossom
yes, I had severe disability (very much pain, restriction of movement) for years--tried different chiros thru the years, with no luck.
Only found out about NUCCA recently, but did not go to a NUCCA chiro--they did not accept my insurance. Then did more research, and
did contact one of the two orthogonal chiropractors in NYC--again, they do not accept insurance, and are quite expensive--but he said that a good chiro could obtain same results with manipulations, but that a lot of patients are afraid of this.
I went to a chiro I trusted, discussed it with her, and she did manipulations slightly different from the ones she had been doing, and voila, a different me! The Atlas, C1 is a tricky area, and not all chiros are willing to do the neck manipulations necessary to get results.
After she did it the first time, went back a few more times to make sure it held--she has now stopped practicing for awhile (she is getting married soon--also looking for a practice to connect with--it became too expensive for her on her own--she will contact me when she starts working again)--so I have been without any adjustments for a few months--feel I need something now, feel my neck is a bit out of alignment (but nowhere as bad as used to be) so the long search begins to find someone experienced in this, and taking my insurance--not easy.
I do have the name of a supposedly excellent osteopathic dr--If i can't find a chiro soon, will give her a try--her approach will be different from a chiro, but I'm hoping it will be as effective. I have put off calling her because she has her patients pay up front, and then wait for the reimbursement--takes 3-4 months; will need a number of vists of course--each in the area of $100.
Let me know by PM if you want me to let you know if the osteopath works as well (that is, if I do contact her).

concerned wrote:

HappyPoet wrote:blossom,

I finally finished reading/understanding (most) everything, and I would definitely have the light tapping procedure done. I'm having venoplasty done, so why not this?

In my younger years I was a downhill skier/racer and took lots of hard falls, so it's not too far-fetched to imagine something is out of alignment in my neck, perhaps starting with the atlas.

Thank you!

~Pam

Doesn't this not make sense considering the demographics of MS? Why do people in scotland hurt their necks more? Are there places where nobody ever hurts their neck?

concerned,

You're asking about the demographics of MS, but I am discussing CCSVI.

Perhaps people in Scotland hurt their necks more because it does have, after all, a very craggy, hazardous terrain. ;)

No, I don't know if there are places where nobody ever hurts their neck, but since you're so curious, you should go research it.

multiple causes multiple cures.

Scotland -

Crap greasy diet (earned titles and awards for this)
Grey weather
High smoking rate
High cancer rate
Famous for alcohol abuse

Also famous for developing several global inventions. Home of Adam Smith the mad capitalist. Instigator of many modern medical techniques and treatments. Well in with the secret societies.

Strong history of medicine. First to highlight spinal lesions (carswell).

Glasgow have their own quackbusters to kill of natural healthcare.

Probably first to mass produce MS Mice. Probably the first to heavily commercialise MS. First to build a meaningful customer base.

Run into the ground by an English MS Society.

Worlds worst MS rate.

CCSVI might not be the be all and end all. Maybe 10,000 years of trepanation tells us that blood flow issues are the problem, not the problem for MS but the problem of many health related issues.

Posture, exercise, diet, angioplasty, it doesn't really matter. A combination of all factors are optimal, along with many others and to leave one out can cause damage.

Most of the CCSVI advocation is around selling angioplasty, selling educational packages, donations & selling the idea that modern clinical trial are "TRUTH"

All-in-all, there seems to be hell of a lot more possibilities than angioplasty. It doesn't mean either view is right or wrong.

Scientists have a lot in common with politicians and that sure as hell isn't medicine.

Yeah, scotland is screwed. Deceitful business interests have ensured CCSVI won't be an option for most. It probably wont be until people start looking at these other options.

Vascular surgeons are just like the neuroligists and scientists as they only really know about a specific topic. They are not fitness coaches, acupunctursts, chrioparctors, gymnasts or rock climbers.

Theres no full answers in isolation, proven historically.

Different viewpoints are more than welcome. The mass produced business advocacy packages tied up in scientific isolation is hardly an indepth appoach to a generalized problem.

I know just by talking to people that I am not the only one who believes there are options openly available.

Cost wise, from free to hell of a lot cheaper and safer than medical solutions.

So how does a person improve their own blood flow if the medical world is all screwed up?

Last night I was looking at the Acerola. It seems interesting in relation to CCSVI and blood flow.

Just felt like a rant, the scotland mention reminded me that we're the toilet seat of the UK. MS is big business in scotland. Several methods dont make economical sense to business concerns.

Sports scientist could add to the CCSVI theory, mountaineers, endurance athletes, acupuncturists, physiotherapists, herbalists, parents, vets, etc. Lot's of options out there & each situation will be somewhat different.

The medical profession may hold all the cards via the reliance on scientific mish-mash but they are severly lacking in other areas, both in knowledge and experience.

I dont think CCSVI will ever be a complete answer but less so if it's left on its lonesome for medical/scientific scrutiny.

vee bee-
agreed. I actually started down this path because I noted that the body was one organism, and specialists were too keenly focused on their narrow region of expertise. Which is why I wrote the Endothelial Health Program back in '08. Check it out-
www.ccsvi.org
look under heading "helping myself"


The cerebral endothelium can be disturbed by many situations. From low vitamin D, to heavy metals, viruses, bacteria, smoking, alcohol, head injuries, edema, saturated fats and stress. Finding your own personal narrative is the key to healing the blood brain barrier.
best,
cheer

my sister with parkinsons is coming to lunch. She is a phd anthropologist.Gotta pass this on. She cant talk or walk good thing she can still read.