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Hello Blossom,
As I have mentioned before, the combination of degeneration (spondylosis/spurs) and abnormal curvatures in your spine are causing functional stenosis (narrowing of the spinal canal) and possibly a funcitonal Chiari 0 malformation as well. That's why tilting your head backwards relieves your symptoms. On the other hand, tilting your head forward pulls the ventral (belly) side of the cord tight toward front of the the spinal canal, which is where the spurs are. The spurs stick out and invade the spinal canal. The front side of the cord contains the long motor (muscle) tracts that go from the brain down to the cord to run the arms and legs. Compression causes muscle weaknesses. Removing the spurs would create more space in the spinal canal and decrease pressure surrounding and acting on the cord, which could improve your situation.

Hi Civic,

It's unlikely that the masseuse knocked the upper cervical spine out of alignment or that your axis misaligned without affecting the atlas. I would let the doctor do his job and determine when you need new x-rays.

NZer1 wrote:I have been able to maintain my Atlas adjustment after the second treatment over a three week gap between first and second treatment. I have had a total of six treatments, which are NSA (Network Spinal Analysis) treatments. As well I had an NET (Neuro Emotional Technique) treatment after the 5th treatment. We experimented with muscle testing whether I had neurological or vascular problems and came up with vascular! Checked whether associated within C1 or C2 and came up with C2. I am suspicious that my mind got in the way for the last result and it was not well thought out by either of us, so we stopped that adventure!
To be honest I have had no improvement with my general 'MS' symptoms, I have had changes in my mobility of my neck and less pain throughout my back. So I will talk with Graham about where we are going with all this as it is a long weekly journey, staying with family over a weekend to achieve two adjustments per trip, and the cost with fuel and all.
I am aware it is going to take time to improve my neck and achieve a curve, and to work on the rest of my disc de-generation problems as well as having a disc bulge and cord lesions.
Any thoughts Dr ? Tips? Hints? Insight from experience? Should we have another xray to verify that we now have atlas correction? Is leg length a trustworthy method for checking atlas alignment when I have measurable difference in each leg length?

Hi Nigel,
I can't comment on NSA or NET as I have no experience or interest in either method and have never used them in practice. I never relied solely on any one indicator, such as leg length to determine when to adjust a patient. I used standard orthorpedic and neurological tests, range of motion of the spine, palpation for tenderness, trigger points, alarm points, meridians, organs etc., muscle tests, posture analysis, leg length etc. In addition to checking signs I also checked a patient's progress by asking about their symptoms each visit. Symptoms provide clues.

Hello all,

For those of you who are interested, I just had the following link sent to me on upright MRI, CSF flow and the role of cervical trauma in MS.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 15283.html

thank you dr. flanagan.

20 yrs. of damage so who knows but for sure i won't know unless i try. any ideas where or who to get the best of the best--and would be willing to do this?

wow!! just read the upright mri findings. it's like i've been vendicated in so many ways. when i was told by neuro.'s yrs. ago trauma would not cause ms and i told them all then and through the yrs. if trauma did not cause the symptoms i have then i did not have what they were calling ms. that was the reason i became interested in ccsvi-i read could be caused by trauma.

i hope this saves many before anyone else ends up like me because no one would pay any attention to me the patient.
dr.'s better start listening to their patients and quit snubbing other dr.'s and chiropractors. it's supposed to be about us the patients not who owns what disease or whatever reasons they want to use as an excuse.

dr. flanagan we just gotta get you on the dr. oz. you and maybe the dr. that built this mri or the dr.that did this study.
your long yrs. of research and knowledge and your book and the mri to back it up. wow!!

uprightdoc wrote:Hello all,

For those of you who are interested, I just had the following link sent to me on upright MRI, CSF flow and the role of cervical trauma in MS.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 15283.html

Just read the article. It says the brain produces 500ccs of CSF per day. Where does it all go? Is there something that pumps it, or does it just flow by gravity?

Hi David this might answer some of your questions, I'm sure Dr. F will be far more accurate than my memory;
"The research was initiated when Damadian and Chu scanned a patient with multiple sclerosis. In reviewing the MRI scans, Damadian noted that one of the MS lesions in the patient's brain was directly connected with the CSF within the ventricles of the brain, which are the structures in which the body continuously produces CSF fluid. It does so through a network of blood vessels within the ventricles known as the choroid plexus. This network generates a large volume of CSF daily, approximately 500 cc."

From memory the CSF is pumped because of he pulsing of an artery that crosses the CSF sac in the neck. So the action of pulsing would also be affected if there is slow blood flow through the brain which is also noted in PwMS. The studies have also shown that PwMS have a larger volume of blood within the brain than normal's and that is not at higher BP, it is blood that is taking up space that CSF would normally have, as well as atrophy of the brain also seen in PwMS.

Also from memory the CSF drains into a vein that is also implicated in CCSVI.

Link from Joan;
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... c8147.html

Dr. F I am struggling with my thoughts on what to do! I am thinking that the best has happened, that my atlas has been adjusted and I now need to have xrays to verify this.
The treatments that I am having are not improving my symptoms and in reality I am aware that my symptoms are progressing still.
After reading the article you have posted for us I am thinking that I am at a cross roads. I have asked around and it appears there isn't an Upright MRI in NZ. I will ask more when I am able.
I have asked my GP to re approach the Neurologist assigned to our area, our local MP, who is also the Patron of our regional MS Society has offered to help if I get refused again.
I am also aware that the same Neuro has said in writing that CCSVI does not exist, so I am in a no win situation as usual. This same no win exists for all PwMS in NZ and I am wanting to make a difference with my case and push for better care for all.
*So do I ask Graham to do xrays to verify that I am aligned and then seek an Upright MRI?
*Do I push the Neurologist to search for CSF flow issues? and cord tethering? Chiari issues? Disc bulge changes? Lesion changes at C2? Lesions in general?

Your thoughts please.
Regards Nigel

David1949 wrote:

uprightdoc wrote:Hello all,

For those of you who are interested, I just had the following link sent to me on upright MRI, CSF flow and the role of cervical trauma in MS.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 15283.html

Just read the article. It says the brain produces 500ccs of CSF per day. Where does it all go? Is there something that pumps it, or does it just flow by gravity?

CSF is driven by arterial pulsations in the choroid plexus. Systole (contraction of the heart) increasess pressure in the telea choroidea, which increases intracranial pressure. The exhalation phase of respiration increases pressure in the thorax which increases pressure on the heart and lungs. The increase in thoracic venous pressure is transmitted to the brain by way of the vertebral veins which have no valves. Exhalation thus increases intracranial pressure. Increased intracranial pressure from systole and exhalation move CSF through the brain. CSF flows around and through the brain in the subarachnoid space and up to the superior sagittal sinus where it is absorbed into venous circulation. After it leaves the lowest fourth ventricle, excess CSF is vented out of the cranial vault and down into the subarachnoid space of the spinal canal. The spinal canal and lumbar cistern serve as expansion tanks.

NZer1 wrote: ... I am struggling with my thoughts on what to do! I am thinking that the best has happened, that my atlas has been adjusted and I now need to have xrays to verify this.
The treatments that I am having are not improving my symptoms and in reality I am aware that my symptoms are progressing still.
After reading the article you have posted for us I am thinking that I am at a cross roads. I have asked around and it appears there isn't an Upright MRI in NZ. I will ask more when I am able.
I have asked my GP to re approach the Neurologist assigned to our area, our local MP, who is also the Patron of our regional MS Society has offered to help if I get refused again.
I am also aware that the same Neuro has said in writing that CCSVI does not exist, so I am in a no win situation as usual. This same no win exists for all PwMS in NZ and I am wanting to make a difference with my case and push for better care for all.
*So do I ask Graham to do xrays to verify that I am aligned and then seek an Upright MRI?
*Do I push the Neurologist to search for CSF flow issues? and cord tethering? Chiari issues? Disc bulge changes? Lesion changes at C2? Lesions in general?

As far as upright MRI, CSF and blood flow studies etc., are concerned, be patient. I have waited nearly 30 years to see the research get to this point. The good news is that it is rapidly picking up speed and turning into an avalanche. You are at the forefront and shaking things up there in NZ in bothe medicine and chiropractic.

Be patient with chiropractic care as well. It takes time and six weeks isn't nearly enough to evaluate. It took Costumenational many months to start noticing significant improvement in symptoms and structural stabilization. So until something better comes along stay as mentally and physically fit as possible and continue with your current chiropractic care. Let Dr. Dobson determine how best to manage your case with the method he uses. You can't lose maintaining the health of your cervical spine and new solutions are on the horizon.

Thanks Dr.

Great site for finding an AO doctor. Just click on an area in your state. Other countries are available, too.

http://atlasorthogonality.com/mapPage.html

by CCSVI in Multiple Sclerosis on Tuesday, 11 October 2011 at 12:12
Not sure if anyone noticed, but I hadn't been writing much lately.

I was diagnosed with benign positional vertigo and cervical vertigo. The world was spinning for two weeks. Not easy being dizzy, fatigued and having headaches. I felt some renewed compassion for my friends with MS. You guys are my heroes.

Both Arlene Hubbard and Mitchell Sturgeon told me to look into BPV when I told them my world was spinning. Let me just say, this CCSVI community is DAMN smart! Here's a note from Mitch--

What's more interesting here, is that the treatment for BPV is a nonmedical manipulation of the head and neck. When it was discovered about 15 years ago the doctor was considered a nut case for coming up with such a unusual treatment for vertigo. There was no surgery. There was no medicine. What kind of a doctor was he? Remind you of anything?
http://www.tchain.com/otoneurology/diso ... /bppv.html

Wanted to share this with you all, because the treatment involved chiropractic adjustments and head positioning exercises. Apparently, I have degenerative disc disease, bulging discs in my neck, and these were putting pressure on my veins, lymph glands and inner ear, causing my vertigo. After adjustment, exercises and massage, the world stopped spinning, headache is gone and I feel relaxed and "trippy."

Dr. Flanagan talks about the importance of upper cervical health on his wonderful blog--
The Upright Doctor-
http://uprightdoctor.wordpress.com/about-ccsvi/

and there was research this week on upright MRI (where you are seated, not lying flat, when imaged), and how this is helping researchers understand position and blood flow.

I highly recommend visiting a knowledgable chiropractor if you have any intuition that neck issues might be contributing to your MS symptoms. Many pwMS recommend NUCCA treatment.
Montel did a video on upper cervical care

Not saying that this is what Dr. Zamboni has found with intraluminal defects in the veins with CCSVI....but a bad neck could be making things worse. Also not saying that I have even the faintest idea of how you guys deal with MS. But take it from someone who is no longer dizzy for the first time in a couple weeks....your neck matters!!!
the very stable and appreciative-
Joan

nzer1, i used to get that every so often. it felt like when you are drunk and the whole room spins. first time i was struggling to get out of bed brought it on-had to be driven to chiro. a certain way i had my head and i kinda strained especially getting out of bed for some reason. i've gotten it slightly at times and i back off quick. i think nucca has stablized that pretty much but a reg chiro. helped it before i was aware of nucca. it is not pleasant.

by the way, i hope you are doing well. seems all the paths we find on our journey to get well are a hard uphill climb. hopefully soon we'll be on the path and find some down hill that is a little easier. it would be great to coast a while. we just gotta keep at it.

dr. flangan has put a lot of people on the right path. pretty exciteing stuff happening. what he wrote after yrs. of research before the upright mri even is now being printed out in black and white "proof" by the upright mri doctors. the book should be bronzed and he and his work celebrated.

Hi Dr. Flanagan,

Hope you're feeling well and everything is okay... you've been missing for almost a week, and some of us have started to worry because you usually tell us when you'll be away from the thread.

Please check in with us soon. Thank you!