This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

dr. flanagan,

"The same forces that can knock you out of whack can knock you back. Chiropractors, however, have developed much more effective and safer ways of correcting the spine using far less force."


when i read this i thought of how i've felt and often expressed to my brothers that ever since that last bad fall that did me in--my innerself felt like i wanted to somehow slam my body down on the "opposite" side that i had hit when i fell--or get them to tie a rope around my ankles and drop me off the balcony and snap everything back in place. crazy i know, but that's how i felt within.

also, when i read about the fellows neck locking, i recalled when i was about 8 or 9 yrs. old upon getting up one morning my neck being locked and could not move it and very bad pain. we were country people and there was not much doctoring. my dad, a very big and strong man, said come here blossom i'll fix that--he lifted up up by my head and gave a jerk. i saw stars, but it worked. when a person really looks back it makes me wonder how my head didn't actually fall off with all the abuse of falls etc. after all, compared to other bone structures of the body the neck is pretty small to be holding such a heavy head and to boot all the sensitive and sooo important transmission lines connecting everything.

have a great weekend--and if you are half as good a cook as you are a chiro. researcher--then everybody is in for a real treat!!

Roll your mouse over any of the 24 vertebrae in the human spine below to learn how each vertebra is connected to specific areas, organs and functions of your body, as well as how subluxation of that vertebrae may cause health challenges if not corrected.

http://www.chiroone.net/why_chiropractic/index.html

NZer1 wrote: ... The posts that you have given all show IMO that there is a time lag between cause and effect and there is, as yet, no 'test' or accepted research to support your understanding.

What do you think will be the steps to simple dx? and for that matter will it be possible to dx with current medical methods?

Do you have a research proposal to support the understandings?

Who will be the most likely Medical Specialty to lead and guide others in this understanding?

Is technology far enough advanced yet to help with detecting this understanding?

Is it possible that there will not be much that can be done for people with these problems?

It appears that early detection of problems from injuries will be vital to mantain QOL?

It seems that what you are describing is a de-generative problem 'set' that can be managed, and that will require focused attention to many things such as diet, meditation and exercise as well as specialist treatment of the upper spine? Generally a mindful attention to ones body, mind and spirit? Basically not a Pharmacological or pill popping management?

Hi Nigel,

There is a time lag affect because the spine is fairly strong and except in extreme trauma it breaks down slowly from many types of trauma such as in cases like yourself, Poet, Blossom, Johnson and others that I will post.

All the technology necessary to make the diagnosis is available now, especially MRI and upright MRI, fluroscope, ultrasound etc
I do have a research proposal. I call it my upright protocols. The medical specialties that will be needed to work together on these cases will be radiologists, chiropractors, neurologists, neurosurgeons, orthopedic surgeons and vascular surgeons.

The technology is definitely here now to test my understanding and dovetails beautifully with the theory of CCSVI as well as the latest research on Chiari malformations, tethered cords, spondylosis, stenosis, scoliosis, MS and trauma etc., etc. Mine is more of an overarching theory that ties all the other theories together.

Severe trauma can cause permanent damage to the spine, brain and cord. Early detection and intervention, however, can prevent the insidious degenerative changes such as CSM which occurs over years in many types of trauma cases and the signs and symptoms start to show up in mid life.

Diet, exercise, meditation and even the best methods of balancing body, mind and spirit won't make fractures, bone spurs, torn connective tissues or dead nerves come back. As they say, if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. Wishes and denials don't make problems go away. Nonetheless, diet, exercise and meditation are essential to health and even more important when you have health issues which cause secondary problems. For example, if you can't walk it due to nerve or joint damage it can cause circulatory stagnation, which can be helped via diet and exercise. In autoimmune inflammatory conditions such as mine, diet is a key factor in both the cause and the solution.

One of the first people to post their case on this thread was Fernando, who posted the following along with his x-ray, which I didn't include here. His case of MS is related to scoliosis.

Fernando - I have been diagnosed with a demyelinating disease and probable MS. I have 4 lesions in my brain and one in my cervical spine. One doctor recently diagnosed me with CCSVI. After that he performed a careful physical examination. He discovered that my left leg is 10 mm (almost half an inch) shorter than the right. Since September I have been wearing a supplemental heel in my left foot to compensate. I have noticed a reduced L'Hermitte and less tingling in my left leg and arm. Everybody including the doctor say that this is very common, but the doctor wants to repeat the doppler in a month or two. I just would like to have your take on all of this and on having the spine twisted like this for years. Thank you very much. This is my x-ray:

Fernando has a fairly mild but double major scoliosis, which means the spine bends to the left and right in an S curve pattern. Scoliosis changes neurovascular tunnels, which can cause thoracic outlet syndrome for example. Scoliosis has also been associated with Chiari malformations and tethered cords, which have been associated with MS.

In this regard Wyrwehere posted a comment on this thread in which she stated that her husband has MS and thoracic outlet syndrome, which sound suspiciouly related to curvature problems in the spine to me. In addition to affecting nerves and blood vessles to the arm, thoracic outlet snydrome can also affect flow through the jugular veins.

Thanks Dr. F
I have just had news this afternoon that the DHB Neuro is willing to see me. It has taken a large amount of pressure from so many directions to get this. I will be waiting for up to four months for the day. I had our MS field Officer talk with him, after she made extra effort to make him stretch to reviewing my notes.

The Neuro has not seen me before and he is guided only by other Neuro's before him and their personal opinions, which of course come from their teaching and experiences. The people who take on the contract to visit our region under the DHB contract are often people starting out or climbing the ladder.

I gave our Nurse the copy of your invite for the medicals to contact you about my case and I doubt it will happen as there was no request for contact details. I believe that there are a massive amount of people in the Health industry who need to to be trained in Health of the Patient rather than their own financial health. Too many are living in a system where results are not the reason for remuneration.

Any way I digress. Dr I am as always at the place where I have to teach the Medicals what is happening in my body. Just like Blossom and the rest of us who post here.

What is missing is the data that we can take to the professionals (Neuros etc) to help them understand what our bodies are doing.

It is a paradym shift in their thinking and without meeting them with information, that is what they call accepted knowledge, 'I' the patient are getting no where. I am labeled as a person who spends too much time on the Internet, that I should wait in line and when the time is right, for them, I will be seen.

This is why I ask for support to turn heads, to get Specialists to listen, to be believed when I say that I would like to be tested for XYZ, as it is possibly what is happening to me.

The Research and Data that will be accepted does not appear to exist? What do we have to do to get this together? Many, if not all of us, need to match the thinking of Mainstream Medicine and provide what they want as proof, the research, the data that supports what we experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I hope you Family gathering goes fantastically.
Regards Nigel

blossom wrote: ... when i read about the fellows neck locking, i recalled when i was about 8 or 9 yrs. old upon getting up one morning my neck being locked and could not move it and very bad pain. we were country people and there was not much doctoring. my dad, a very big and strong man, said come here blossom i'll fix that--he lifted up up by my head and gave a jerk. i saw stars, but it worked. when a person really looks back it makes me wonder how my head didn't actually fall off with all the abuse of falls etc. after all, compared to other bone structures of the body the neck is pretty small to be holding such a heavy head and to boot all the sensitive and sooo important transmission lines connecting everything.

have a great weekend--and if you are half as good a cook as you are a chiro. researcher--then everybody is in for a real treat!!

Blossom,
Although sligthly more refined, there is an adjustive procedure in chiropractic called an occipitlal lift similar to what your father used but it is done with patient lying down the contact hand on the mastoid bone on the side of the low occiput (head tilt). It is not as specific as upper cervical but served chiropractors well for years in getting the job done.

The neck is disproportionately small in humans compared to the size of the skull due to the better balance of the head on top of the spine which requires much less muscle strength to hold it upright.

I am not a even a good cook but I have fun and try to keep things on the healthier side. I replaced bread stuffing with my own sweet potato stuffing. Except for the bread crumbs it's loaded with fortifying nutritional value. I throw in the bread crumbs to spice things up for the holidays. I saute the onions and celery and then slow cook it all in the crock pot with walnuts, cranberries, a few juniper berries, orange peel and fennel or what ever else strikes my fancy. It's also fun to throw in tablespoon or two of rasberry jelly.

Nigel,
The research is here now to show acquired Chiari 1 type malformations such as I suspect you may have. Radiologist Dr. David Harshfield Jr. says he hasn's seen a case of MS yet that wasn't associated with a cerebellar tonsillar ectopia (Chiari malformation). Neurosurgeon Dr. Milhorat and others have done a great deal of research into Chiari malformations which they likewise found assoicated with MS. Milhorat also develped an interesting way to check more closely for tethered cords. Dr. Raymond Damadian, the inventor of MRI and president of FONAR upright MRI just did a study showing a connection between MS and trauma. That's just scratching the surface. My files are loaded with scientific evidence and studies going back decades. It's time to connect the dots.

You should be carefully checked for a Chiari 1. It would also be helpful to have flexion and extension cervical MRI views similar to Blossom and if possible blood and CSF flow studies. It would be further helpful if chiropractors in NZ were to take on the challenge and catch up with the science. You could also use some help with issues related to low blood pressure which contributes to the problem.

The following is another case from the comments submitted to my wordpress blog. This is a case of MS due to trauma.

Dr. Flanagan,
I am fascinated by your work. I too am an MS patient that had an “accident” with a corresponding neck injury prior to diagnosis. I was in a sledding accident as a teen that resulted in a neck injury. Years later came a bout of optic neuritis followed by MS diagnosis. I have always felt there was a vascular component. I have had migraines, which have increased in severity as the disease progressed. When I have a migraine, the veins protrude on my neck and temple so much it scares people. The pharmacist actually told me to see a vascular specialist. But what I really find strange, was midway thru my MS disease, I had a schwanoma located on the cervical spine c1 thru c-4. I had been complaining of neck pain for YEARS. After begging for an MRI, they found the tumor and operated within days. I was told it would have paralysed me sooner than later. Also, heat sensitivity, but even more troublesome is coldness. My feet hurt they are so cold and I am cold when people are hot. I did have angioplasty-Interestingly stenosis on left jugular very severe and that is my worse side. I had instant relief of coldness after angio and no more fatigue, etc. Also, actually gained some mobility, which for secondary progressive disease is quite exciting. But now again, I have neck pain and fatigue again. Could that schwanoma and later surgery have somehow restricted venous flow? I wonder if the schwanoma was the result of the sledding accident?

Here is another trauma case from comments on my wordpress blog due to a motor vehicle accident that resutled in migraine headache, TMJ and MS. What's not included is that the patient also had an episode of what she called lock jaw (TMJ dysfunction), where she had difficulty opening her mouth after her second preganancy.

Dear Dr

Apoligies in advance to the forum and to the Dr for the long message xxxx

At the age of 20 I had a car accident – whiplash was my only injury …following this I then suffered migraines this was relieved by two Ice packs one of the top of the head and the other based of the neck then followed by tablets latter years’ immigrain (over the counter meds)
Migraines terrible on the right side to include my right eye, my nose this would feel ice cold but my right nostril felt even colder when inhaling. Head pain came from the top of my head with a little pulsing thing going on but over my right eye (top of my forehead) I would feel the most pain like something was waiting to burst.

1993 2nd and final pregnancy – daughter born 3 months early (prolapse cord) the pregnancy was terrible permanent right hip/leg pain felt like I had a finger in my right butt this was to carry on but the limp went after the birth but hip /butt pain remained.
Following the car accident I always had this cracking in my neck like I had bubble wrap in the nape of my brain stem and twisting it with that sound of repeated cracking is what I heared from my neck area when turning my head left /right I also have what is known as a widow’s peak

Overtime I did attend physio for head pain as the right side of my neck felt taught i had my back cracked three days later the following happened…
2009 whilst sitting watching T.V my right leg then arm went numb went to casualty this was believed to be a mini stroke then consider being a slow progressive stroke any how after all the stroke test/scans, bloods were rule out MRI reveals MS
2009 MRI showed T2 hyperdensity in Left cerebral hempisphere with two smaller lesions more posteriorly on the leftside and one in the right fronto-temporal region. Repeat MRI six weeks later showed the right fronto temporal lesion to have disappeared and the left cerebral hemisphere to be shrinking . However a new lesion had appeared in the right cerebral hemisphere.
CFS has shown isolated CSF oligoclonal bands low in numbers
2010 MRI There is a focus of abnormal signal within the white matter adjacent to the body of the left lateral ventricle with signal change extending caudally into the corticospinal tract. 4 further foci of signal abnormality are present within the white matter bilaterally. Appearances are consistent with demyelination.
CCSVI august 2010 via a right formal vein puncture 6 french sheath. Initial venography on both sides of neck showed entirely normal appearances of the internal jugular venous circulation on the right, but showed a focal narrowing in the mid third on the left with some collateral venous filling. The central venous anatomy appeared normal with no collateral filling or flow diversion to suggest significant azygos narrowing. The left sided jugular narrowing was ballooned successfully using 6mm balloon with improvement in flow and reduction in collateralisation post plasty.
My MS symptoms at onset of attack was paralysation on the right side to include sensitivity all the way down the right hand side to include only the right hand side of head. This repaired within six weeks left with minor mobility problems none to the naked eye.
I how ever have never had another migraine since the attack of MS but have been left with a red rash mottled in its appearance and hot it is troublesome along with a hot ear.
Do you think I would benfit from upper cervical chiropractor screening
Kind regards margaret age 43

Here is one more case to consider for today that was also taken from my wordpress comments. The comment is from a young male with a case of Arnold Chiari malformation causing MS.

Hi
I have been diagnosed with ACM1, my cousin has been diagnosed, with MS, and our other cousin also on my mums side of the family Has suffered migraine all his life.
Is there a genetic consention and would the ccsvi treatment be alternative treatment to the current ACM surgury. Its worth saying that Proprandol is the drug that have been perscribed to releave my ACM symptons and it does work but as soon as I stop taking it the symptoms return stronger

Thanks for these blog comments, it paints a picture that is hard to ignore. The problem is that Mainstream and even our Director of Technique Chiropractic in NZ are just not interested in discussing any of this.

I am lost for words, I am surprised at the lack of interest in these case studies, your book and other papers that are available.

It seems to me that it will take a group of passionate people to go through your file of data and articles and assemble it a way that cannot be ignored.

It seems to me that everyone has a piece to the puzzle, some in their story and others because of the articles they have kept over time. Is this something a publisher, editor, brainstorming group, Cece (TiMS) could pull together so it is in one place and well presented, like the work of Marie Rhodes with her book CCSVI as the Cause of MS.

Frustration has me thinking we are sitting on our hands and not wanting to do this well. As though we are holding the cards too tightly and need to ask and find the 'magic' person to put this together and other(s) to lead the education.

Your meal sounds tasty,
Nigel

A TiMS member I will refer to Mr. T granted permission for me to post his history previously on this thread. I am reposting it here. This is a case of trauma due to motorcycle accident that resulted in MS.

I am a 53 year old male. I was in a serious motor cycle accident in UK in 1974 that resulted in a compound fracture to top of humerous bone near right shoulder, a femur fracture of left leg just below knee joint. (The patient probably means a frature of the fibula which is in the lower leg. The upper part of the leg is the femur).

I spent 12 weeks in the hospital in shoulder splints and leg traction. There were no obvious neck injuries, but I think the doctors were focused more on the broken bones and never examined my neck. I had several operations including screws to fix the humerous. My left leg is now 1/2" shorter than the right leg. The screws were subsequently removed 2 years later due to severe discomfort and pain.

X-rays report: I reviewed the patient's x-rays and found a significant head and neck tilt to the left. Mild compression fractures in the cerical spine and moderate degeneration (spondylosis) of C5/6. There was also a loss of the cervical curve. In the lower spine there was a signficant tilt of the pelvis to the left and a moderate compression fracture of L1.

During mid 80's I developed blurred vision in one eye. The optician referred me back to GP. Over the next couple of years I gradually developed tingling in the left hand and a limp in my right leg. I had various tests and finally a MRI done. In the mid 90's I was told it was MS, but was never given any medication. My physical symptoms have deteriorated. My gait has gotten worse. My balance is not good. I also have bladder weakness, foot drop etc.

I decided to go to a chiropractor in 2006, having read it might help some of my symptoms. I have attached his original X-rays if any use? I believe his work has delayed progress further but not totally stopped it..
I heard about CCSVI and went to Poland in April 2010 and they carried out an angioplasty to my RJV, but not stented. That just about brings me up to date, although still ambulatory I now wear a FES unit for the foot drop, which has helped me stay at work.

My X-rays findings: There is a significant head tilt to the left, moderate spondylosis (degeneration) of C5/6 and loss of cervical curve. There is a significant pelvic and lumbar tilt to the left and a moderate compression fracture of L1.

Thanks Nigel. The sweet potato stuffing does taste pretty good.

I am heading back to the kitchen. Tonight I am making a baked pasta meal in my unglazzed clay pot. My family loves it. It tastes decadent but it's actually light and healthy. It's loaded with onions, garlic, red peppers, yellow peppers, carrots, celery and tomatoes. The vegetables get sauted along with some extra lean browned chopmeat. It then gets put into the clay pot and baked with beef stock, bay leaves, oregeno, salt and pepper. It bakes for fifty minutes then the bowtie or penne pasta goes in for another thirty minutes. Sometimes I add a couple of slices of bacon of a small amount of sausage but we have been bad. My sister-in-law made excellent quiche for breakfast and we are all still in recovery so I will keep the dinner on the healthier side tonight.

If both of your legs lengths are equal ..... that is abnormal.


MrSuccess

That's not true.

Dr. F