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Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:48 pm
by Cece
scorpion, I read that differently:
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.
Manifestations range from none (asymptomatic) to fulminant liver failure or cirrhosis. Symptoms vary depending on whether the obstruction occurs acutely or over time.
With cerebral venous drainage, it is rare that all the main veins (r-ijv, l-ijv and verts) would all be entirely occluded. Even then there are collaterals. CCSVI is analogous to incomplete obstruction Budd Chiari.
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:57 pm
by scorpion
Cece wrote:scorpion, I read that differently:
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.
Manifestations range from none (asymptomatic) to fulminant liver failure or cirrhosis. Symptoms vary depending on whether the obstruction occurs acutely or over time.
With cerebral venous drainage, it is rare that all the main veins (r-ijv, l-ijv and verts) would all be entirely occluded. Even then there are collaterals. CCSVI is analogous to incomplete obstruction Budd Chiari.
According to this study partial blockage, with therapy, results in a life expectancy of 5-10 years.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2925647/
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:23 pm
by cheerleader
Thank you for citing research, scorpion. It makes discussion much easier. Cece was right, in Budd-Chiari--the first paper you linked:
Prognosis
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.
Complete obstruction is very, very different than incomplete. If you had two completely blocked jugular veins and no collaterals, you wouldn't be around for very long.
Now, the second paper you linked to was regarding polycystic liver disease, a very different scenario than Budd-Chiari. Not the same...
Polycystic liver disease (PLD) is a unique clinical problem frequently associated with autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease (ADPKD).1,2 Most patients with PLD do not require intervention for their liver cysts
Again, please read Dr. B.B. Lee's paper on the likening of Budd Chiari to CCSVI. He is referring to a scenario like the incomplete obstruction of the hepatic veins created by webs and other malformations. He explains it better than I can-
cheer
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:29 pm
by scorpion
cheerleader wrote:Thank you for citing research, scorpion. It makes discussion much easier. Cece was right, in Budd-Chiari--the first paper you linked:
Prognosis
Without treatment, most patients with complete venous obstruction die of liver failure within 3 yr. For patients with incomplete obstruction, the course varies.
Complete obstruction is very, very different than incomplete. If you had two completely blocked jugular veins and no collaterals, you wouldn't be around for very long.
Now, the second paper you linked to was regarding polycystic liver disease, a very different scenario than Budd-Chiari. Not the same...Polycystic liver disease (PLD) is a unique clinical problem frequently associated with autosomal dominant polycystic kidney disease (ADPKD).1,2 Most patients with PLD do not require intervention for their liver cysts
Again, please read Dr. B.B. Lee's paper on the likening of Budd Chiari to CCSVI. He is referring to a scenario like the incomplete obstruction of the hepatic veins created by webs and other malformations. He explains it better than I can-
cheer
lol. i new I should not be posting while cooking dinner.
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:33 pm
by malden
marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.
At the end of the day, relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:46 pm
by CCSVIhusband
Malden wrote:marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.
At the end of the day, relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.
OK, then why do you even post in this forum? You add nothing to the discussion that anyone can take away and say ... wow I didn't know that about CCSVI, I'm glad I know that now.
Because that "sham" procedure worked on my wife and a lot of other people ...
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:39 pm
by Donnchadh
Malden wrote:marcstck wrote:...
At the end of the day, we all want the same thing: relief from this terrible disease.
At the end of the day,
relief from this terrible disease I found with my family and my friends. Not in my doctors or sham procedures.
If you found the cure for "MS" then why don't you share it with others?
Donnchadh