This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

yep i've seen that on bottles lots, makes sense since it's not being delivered by the litre after all

hi again mavis i re-read and noticed you said you would not know how much zinc to take. you don't have too far to go so look for maybe 25mg zinc (balanced with copper).

my product is 50mg zinc balanced with 2mg copper. i do not avoid gluten or phytate foods which means i need a higher level zinc supplement to compensate.

jimmylegs wrote:hi again mavis i re-read and noticed you said you would not know how much zinc to take. you don't have too far to go so look for maybe 25mg zinc (balanced with copper).

my product is 50mg zinc balanced with 2mg copper. i do not avoid gluten or phytate foods which means i need a higher level zinc supplement to compensate.

Thanks again jimmylegs. You have been very helpful.

My diet is very good. Variety of vegetables (yum) and fruits (double yum) and mostly organic. No junk food, no processed food. I know diet alone is NOT enough and I have to supplement, but still I believe I get most of my nutrients through my diet.
Now off to a healthstore to buy my new supplements.

two thumbs up!

me too re not processed. i stay out of the junk food aisle, and there's not a canned good in the house. i'm by and large stocked with either fresh, frozen, or dried whole foods in my kitchen.

although my supplements count as processed i suppose LOL

Do you eat meat, fish or fowl? Are all of you fruit, veggie, grain and bean people? What about the essential Amino acids?
No processed for me either and I drink only water and coffee. Wait! Okay, dark chocolate is a must.
CD

CD wrote:Do you eat meat, fish or fowl? Are all of you fruit, veggie, grain and bean people? What about the essential Amino acids?
No processed for me either and I drink only water and coffee. Wait! Okay, dark chocolate is a must.
CD

Even though I am a fruit, veggie,....person mostly, I eat fish too, about twice a week, and mostly wild salmon. I also drink water and coffee (just a few cups a week - love the taste and smell) and occasional freshly squeezed juice.
And yes, dark chocolate with my brandy!

i eat fruit, veg, dairy, eggs, sprouted whole grain multigrain bread, wild salmon and occasionally other fish, chicken, pork, beef, and i'm kind of on a clean out the freezer venison thing lately. i like salads and i favor veg like sweet potato and dark leafy greens such as chard and kale and spinach for side dishes. my regimen thread has a few days of eating listed.

you have to watch food combinations to ensure proper absorption of certain nutrients. zinc is one of those for sure!

Dania posted:
http://www.msobserver.com/2010/03/uv-ra ... -symptoms/
http://www.naturalnews.com/028536_sunli ... rosis.html

The balance of current evidence advises pwMS to take vit D3. If you live in a sunny climate and can tolerate heat then sunbathing is a free method of increasing your vit d levels. This does not apply to most pwMS.
Sunlamps give other problems - burning for eg.
You also need minerals - see Jimmylegs's posts.

MarkW

How quickly are vitamin D levels depleted? I had been living in the tropics and while there I also supplemented additional D3 for a while. I had expected to be fine after moving to Germany in the Spring and only need to start extra D in the Fall. After only a month, I was doing worse and my fingernails were splitting, I started 8000IU/day. There was an immediate noticeable improvement, mostly in spasticity and I have maintained with 4000IU/day. My levels are technically good but I obviously need them higher. My question is without the abundant tropical sun source of D, how much do I need? I used to tank an hour or two of sun a couple of times a week and summer is about over here.

I haven't had my zinc tested but I think I get plenty and I have great fingernails now with no white spots. Besides I eat lots pine nuts, pecans, lamb, shellfish and other foods rich in zinc.

Hello Thekla,
This thread is useful reading but I have extracted my early thoughts:
MarkW wrote:
My advice has been supported by my reading so I have summarised this:
- Take 5 to 10,000 IU a day of D3. It is safe for adults.
- Target range is 100 to 150 nmol/L of 25-hydroxyvitamin D in blood (measure in Feb-Mar). Lifeguards in St. Louis have 150 nmol/L naturally.
I am not a person to give you lots of references so here are two:
- Lancet Neurology June 2010 p555 - Leading Edge. Short 1 page summary, easy reading.
- Lancet Neurology June 2010 p599-612 - Vitamin D and Multiple Sclerosis. Review from Harvard with 196 references, heavy material.
I note that Vitamin D is important for many areas of health, including vascular health, which has already been discussed on the forum.
----------------------------------
My advice on a practical level - take one 5000 IU capsule a day until Feb/Mar next year, then get tested.
Minerals are essential, we should get sufficient from food but the typical western diet is not great. I add a multi-mineral tab cos I am lazy about balancing my diet.

Vitamin D should not be regarded as just a vitamin. It acts as a hormone as well, but its full role is not understood.

Hope this helps,
MarkW

Thanks to Eve who came across this interesting study. It is only in rats not humans:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20655720

Quote:
Vitamin D3 restores altered cholinergic and insulin receptor expression in the cerebral cortex and muscarinic M3 receptor expression in pancreatic islets of streptozotocin induced diabetic rats.

Kumar PT, Antony S, Nandhu MS, Sadanandan J, Naijil G, Paulose CS.
Source

Molecular Neurobiology and Cell Biology Unit, Centre for Neuroscience, Cochin University of Science and Technology, Cochin, Kerala 682 022, India.
Abstract

Nutritional therapy is a challenging but necessary dimension in the management of diabetes and neurodegenerative changes associated with it. The study evaluates the effect of vitamin D(3) in preventing the altered function of cholinergic, insulin receptors and GLUT3 in the cerebral cortex of diabetic rats.

Muscarinic M3 acetylcholine receptors in pancreas control insulin secretion. Vitamin D(3) treatment in M3 receptor regulation in the pancreatic islets was also studied. Radioreceptor binding assays and gene expression was done in the cerebral cortex of male Wistar rats. Immunocytochemistry of muscarinic M3 receptor was studied in the pancreatic islets using specific antibodies.

Y-maze was used to evaluate the exploratory and spatial memory. Diabetes induced a decrease in muscarinic M1, insulin and vitamin D receptor expression and an increase in muscarinic M3, α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptor, acetylcholine esterase and GLUT3 expression.

Vitamin D(3) and insulin treatment reversed diabetes-induced alterations to near control. Diabetic rats showed a decreased Y-maze performance while vitamin D(3) supplementation improved the behavioural deficit. In conclusion, vitamin D(3) shows a potential therapeutic effect in normalizing diabetes-induced alterations in cholinergic, insulin and vitamin D receptor and maintains a normal glucose transport and utilisation in the cortex.

In addition vitamin D(3) modulated muscarinic M3 receptors activity in pancreas and plays a pivotal role in controlling insulin secretion. Hence our findings proved, vitamin D(3) supplementation as a potential nutritional therapy in ameliorating diabetes mediated cortical dysfunctions and suggest an interaction between vitamin D(3) and muscarinic M3 receptors in regulating insulin secretion from pancreas.

==================================

Sunbathing was mentioned earlier and that most pwMS cannot tolerate this....
I have been shocked this summer to have gotten a nice tan. CCSVI treatment-related improvements in heat tolerance get the credit. It feels healthy. My kids are also getting more sunshine when I bring them along.

I also take 4000 IU of vitamin D frequently, after testing on the low end of normal for vitamin D the last two years.

Niacin (B3) has given me relief from the sun. I wont sunbath when its really hot but I can tolerate moderate summerdays withour problem now. Temps above 20C used to wear me out now I can handle them really well.

More info on why D3 and CCSVI should be combined........................MarkW

Vitamin D and immune function: an overview.
Source: Proc Nutr Soc. 2011 Aug 18:1-12
Hewison M.
UCLA and Orthopaedic Hospital Department of Orthopaedic Surgery and the Orthopaedic Hospital Research Center, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, 615 Charles E. Young, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Abstract
Immunomodulatory actions of vitamin D have been recognised for over a quarter of a century, but it is only in the last few years that the significance of this to normal human physiology has become apparent. Two key factors have underpinned this revised perspective. Firstly, there are increasing data linking vitamin insufficiency with prevalent immune disorders. Improved awareness of low circulating levels of precursor 25-hydroxyvitamin D in populations across the globe has prompted epidemiological investigations of health problems associated with vitamin D insufficiency. Prominent among these are autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis, type 1 diabetes and Crohn's disease, but more recent studies indicate that infections such as tuberculosis may also be linked to low 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels. The second factor expanding the link between vitamin D and the immune system is our improved knowledge of the mechanisms that facilitate this association. It is now clear that cells from the immune system contain all the machinery needed to convert 25-hydroxyvitamin D to active 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, and for subsequent responses to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. Mechanisms such as this are important for promoting antimicrobial responses to pathogens in macrophages, and for regulating the maturation of antigen-presenting dendritic cells. The latter may be a key pathway by which vitamin D controls T-lymphocyte (T-cell) function. However, T-cells also exhibit direct responses to 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D, notably the development of suppressor regulatory T-cells. Collectively these observations suggest that vitamin D is a key factor linking innate and adaptive immunity, and both of these functions may be compromised under conditions of vitamin D insufficiency.
PMID: 21849106

can you explain why we need the copper I understand a little... it balances out the D3 ? and if I bought a multi minerial would a general a-z multi mineral do ?

my mate ( not a pwms) has low vit d she was given packets of vitd to disolve in water GP said to take a multi mineral with vd ,she does have underline diabetis maybe going on insulin.

Silver