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frodo wrote:

Cece wrote:To me the distinction is important to make, whatever was written on an ultrasound doppler patent application two years ago. Until or unless MS and CCSVI are proven to be one and the same, the only thing that can be seen with an ultrasound doppler of our necks is if we have central venous stenosis. You cannot diagnose MS through a doppler ultrasound of the veins. Not yet anyway. You can diagnose central venous stenosis, specifically CCSVI, which warrants treating in its own right.

Well, not exactly.

If finally an association between MS and CCSVI appears (even if they are shown not to be cause and effect), diagnosis for CCSVI will be used for MS diagnosis. The method is called "Bayesian inference", in case somebody wants to take a look at it.

frodo, this is of value, thanks.

The rest of this thread...perhaps less valuable. ;)

I'd take MrSuccess over Mr. Quayle any day. And over Mr. Rose, too, for that matter. A rose is a rose is a rose is a stink.

concerned wrote:Kind of puts all this "CCSVI docs aren't treating MS" nonsense to rest.

Read here: http://tinyurl.com/4a23c45

I like how you hid the link with tinyurl so people didn't know it was that garbage blog.

The super CCSVI finder. I think Malden and Rose are overreacting. Something tells me Zamboni is not going to make the big big bucks off his super machine. Along those lines I have invented a CCSVI dowser that will run circles around Zamboni's ultrasound machine!!!!

This was filed in 2008. Now it's 2011. In Internet time 2008 was, like, when dinosaurs walked the earth, you know? So who cares what anyone called it way back then? MS/CCSVI research evolves rapidly (except at BNAC). People file patents all the time. My favorite part of this was following the link to the patent site and sampling the other patents that had been filed.

scorpion wrote:I have invented a CCSVI dowser that will run circles around Zamboni's

Now, this Canadian girl is wondering how the heck that dowser will flood the rinks...
Can't possibly compete with a Zamboni...

prairiegirl wrote:

scorpion wrote:I have invented a CCSVI dowser that will run circles around Zamboni's

Now, this Canadian girl is wondering how the heck that dowser will flood the rinks...
Can't possibly compete with a Zamboni...

Prairiegirl do not be so quick to laugh off my invention!!! You just hold my dowsing stick in your hand until it begins to quiver and wallah!!!! It WILL find any blockage in the entire venous system !!!!! I have taken a picture and posted it below:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Houte ... lroede.jpg

scorpion wrote:The super CCSVI finder. I think Malden and Rose are overreacting. Something tells me Zamboni is not going to make the big big bucks off his super machine. Along those lines I have invented a CCSVI dowser that will run circles around Zamboni's ultrasound machine!!!!

It does show that the Zamboni method is for diagnosing MS, despite the pulling of the wool.

Also, the 371(c) date is in September 2010, it could have been amended to CCSVI, not MS, if that's what Zamboni is actually doing.

concerned wrote:I didn't say the patent application was about treating CCSVI, but if you're diagnosing MS by looking at neck veins and then "fix" the neck veins, why are you doing it if not to address MS?

I believe my fatigue, which is severe, has been misdiagnosed as being directly caused by the MS lesions (minimal) or the possible inflammation (no o-bands found in spinal tap) and instead is caused directly by the hemodynamic effects of my bilateral jugular stenoses. I am having my neck veins treated specifically to address this fatigue. I am really glad to have this chance; it's not like the Nuvigil is doing the job.

So you don't have MS?


We were talking about Zamboni's technique for diagnosing MS, I don't see how this fits into the conversation. (This is ThisisMS, you know.)

Rokkit wrote:And btw, I know Mr. Quayle. Mr. Quayle is a friend of mine. And MrSuccess is no Mr. Quayle.

Btw, I meant no offense by that, it was just a reference to the debate with Lloyd Bentsen. I was just trying to be funny. This is one of the reasons I'm not a comedian.

Cece, I too think there are symptoms like fatigue directly related to venous obstruction as Dr. Dake has been saying. One problem with that though is why isn't fatigue improving to the same extent in PPMS if venous obstruction is the only pathology at work.

As for docs saying they aren't treating MS, I'm kinda with concerned on that one. I don't know of any IR that isn't requiring an MS diagnosis before doing angioplasty. So how can you say you aren't treating MS?

Rokkit wrote: As for docs saying they aren't treating MS, I'm kinda with concerned on that one. I don't know of any IR that isn't requiring an MS diagnosis before doing angioplasty. So how can you say you aren't treating MS?

This.

concerned wrote:

Rokkit wrote: As for docs saying they aren't treating MS, I'm kinda with concerned on that one. I don't know of any IR that isn't requiring an MS diagnosis before doing angioplasty. So how can you say you aren't treating MS?

This.

Dr. Hubbard's IRB does not require an MS diagnosis. He will refer to treatment if a patient is found to have CCSVI by the two Zamboni criteria, no other diagnosis needed.

sara-sama also was posting about a few people with ALS turning up with CCSVI and being treated by Dr. Sinan.

But, yes, the vast majority of patients with CCSVI also have MS.

I like what Dr. Dake said, about CCSVI being a promoter of MS. (With there being other promoters too: genetics, immune system, low vitamin D during childhood, etc.) So then by treating CCSVI, it is taking away a promoter of MS, which may then affect the MS.

Good point about the fatigue in PPMS. Lesions and motor difficulty and inflammation and depression are all other possible fatigue agents. They aren't too relevant in my case. I can't wait until we have all the data. I think bilateral jugular stenoses might end up being especially correlated with MS fatigue, as compared to other possible CCSVI configurations. It seems logical, anyway. Just as it seems logical that lumbar vein abnormalities, MT syndrome and azygous blockages may be associated with spinal MS.

concerned wrote:So you don't have MS?


We were talking about Zamboni's technique for diagnosing MS, I don't see how this fits into the conversation. (This is ThisisMS, you know.)

In case it hadn't occurred to you, there are many very valuable opinions found here that do not come from 'MS' patients. Excluding yours, of course.