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Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:14 pm
by NZer1
I believe that Joans comment is the most important to remember,
"-we simply have not had the technological means of studying blood flow in, blood flow out and comparing the levels in pwMS vs. normals until recently....and there are huge differences. Research coming. It's about time."
The flows in and out of PwMS is the key issue here, no just the Zamboni criteria.
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:28 pm
by scorpion
NZer1 wrote:I believe that Joans comment is the most important to remember,
"-we simply have not had the technological means of studying blood flow in, blood flow out and comparing the levels in pwMS vs. normals until recently....and there are huge differences. Research coming. It's about time."
The flows in and out of PwMS is the key issue here, no just the Zamboni criteria.
This I have heard for over a year.
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:37 pm
by Cece
"Research coming" will be true for at least the next five years too.
Such exciting times.
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:42 pm
by gauchito
If you lose your keys in the kitchen you will not find them in the bedroom no mater how much time and resources you engage in the search. A new MS model might be able to redirect attention, energy and resources to the kitchen (whether or not CCSVI) where the keys were lost. In the meantime, 150 years of mistery, ot of people making lots of money and we continue ill.
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:03 pm
by cheerleader
gauchito wrote:If you lose your keys in the kitchen you will not find them in the bedroom no mater how much time and resources you engage in the search. A new MS model might be able to redirect attention, energy and resources to the kitchen (whether or not CCSVI) where the keys were lost. In the meantime, 150 years of mistery, ot of people making lots of money and we continue ill.
Sorry, Gauchito, must disagree...I found the spare key that was hidden in the bedroom. And helped my husband.
Thanks to Dr. Embry (and originally Dr. Zamboni) for explaining how venous disease and immune dysfunction can co-exist.
For those who haven't read the original paper on this---it's The Big Idea-
link
cheer
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:12 pm
by scorpion
cheerleader wrote:gauchito wrote:If you lose your keys in the kitchen you will not find them in the bedroom no mater how much time and resources you engage in the search. A new MS model might be able to redirect attention, energy and resources to the kitchen (whether or not CCSVI) where the keys were lost. In the meantime, 150 years of mistery, ot of people making lots of money and we continue ill.
Sorry, Gauchito, must disagree...I found the spare key that was hidden in the bedroom. And helped my husband.
Thanks to Dr. Embry (and originally Dr. Zamboni) for explaining how venous disease and immune dysfunction can co-exist.
For those who haven't read the original paper on this---it's The Big Idea-
link
cheer
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:24 pm
by gauchito
Cheer: I am on your side! I was liberated on set 22nd and doing well. Perhaps my metaphor was deficient. As long as we continue to look for keys in the bedroom (autoimmune model) we will find nothing because keys remain hidden somewhere in the kitchen (new model)
Sorry for confusion I caused and my mediocrity as a writer
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:29 pm
by Cece
Especially considering we have torn the bedrooms to shreds searching everywhere (autoimmune model) yet have barely brushed across the counters to see if there's a key in plain sight in the kitchen (vascular model)...?
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:30 pm
by cheerleader
gauchito wrote:Cheer: I am on your side! I was liberated on set 22nd and doing well. Perhaps my metaphor was deficient. As long as we continue to look for keys in the bedroom (autoimmune model) we will find nothing because keys remain hidden somewhere in the kitchen (new model)
Sorry for confusion I caused and my mediocrity as a writer
no worries....my translation of your metaphor was deficient! My bad. All I mean is that we need to consider the new venous evidence (the new room) and look wherever the technology and research leads us.
sorry to mangle your metaphor!
cheer
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:48 pm
by CCSVIhusband
scorpion wrote:NZer1 wrote:I believe that Joans comment is the most important to remember,
"-we simply have not had the technological means of studying blood flow in, blood flow out and comparing the levels in pwMS vs. normals until recently....and there are huge differences. Research coming. It's about time."
The flows in and out of PwMS is the key issue here, no just the Zamboni criteria.
This I have heard for over a year.
Clearly it makes CCSVI wrong because it hasn't placated YOU (and about 3 others) and you have to wait over a year for research ... for shame on all of these CCSVI doctors. I'll write each and tell them some "skeptic" anonymous "scorpion" is tired of waiting for 1 YEAR ...
We've been waiting 20+ years for the auto-immune model to give anything to people with "MS" ...
The questions "patientx" asks ... I don't even know what that stuff is ... and I'm well read.
Or some very highly technical ... Sounds like neurologist speak ... I wonder ...
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:52 pm
by gauchito
Cheer: when you have time pls have a look at my former post in this thread (long and boring I must admit)trying to add on Embry's document
on why the official version of MS is a biologically impossible pathology. That is why I also claim to urgently destroy the old house; clean the land and be ready for a new and better house for all of us!