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I found this post on another thread:

"It is literally insane to think that herniated discs in the low back are due to upper cervical problems."

We are dealing with a multitude of skeletal problems that MS patients develop. The above statement meant to guide patients and given in good faith is, unfortunately, erroneous.

Leg length descrepancies, lower back pain, sciatic nerve pain and hip pain are routinely corrected by adjusting the Atlas with no other manipulation of any other part of the spine (bar jaw correction with appliances).

These are also symptoms which plague MS patients and have little to do with 'brain lesions' either.

If there is an upper cervical problem the lower back has to rotate in the opposite direction to compensate which makes the hips also rotate, giving leg length descrepancies and often associated lower back and hip pain.

Yes. An upper cervical problem can lead to disc herniatioon in the lower back.

Attention to the Atlas is paramount before any intervention in the lower back is ever attempted.

Amir wrote:I found this post on another thread:

"It is literally insane to think that herniated discs in the low back are due to upper cervical problems."

We are dealing with a multitude of skeletal problems that MS patients develop. The above statement meant to guide patients and given in good faith is, unfortunately, erroneous.

Amir, it is not the best practice to quote someone from another thread to disagree with the belief and not post it also in the thread itself. Imagine if you were quoted from your facetious story you told of the reason for human Atlas Imbalance? This practice means that those on the other thread (especially another Dr) do not have an opportunity to benefit from or refute you belief. And more importantly, us MS'ers do not gain from any knowledge furthered from the exchange of ideas; the whole purpose of a forum as this.

For those wishing to see the original post that Dr Amir speaks of, I think it was this one from Oct 2010 by Dr Flanagan?
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ml#p136726

CureOrBust wrote:

Amir wrote:I found this post on another thread:

"It is literally insane to think that herniated discs in the low back are due to upper cervical problems."

We are dealing with a multitude of skeletal problems that MS patients develop. The above statement meant to guide patients and given in good faith is, unfortunately, erroneous.

Amir, it is not the best practice to quote someone from another thread to disagree with the belief and not post it also in the thread itself. Imagine if you were quoted from your facetious story you told of the reason for human Atlas Imbalance? This practice means that those on the other thread (especially another Dr) do not have an opportunity to benefit from or refute you belief. And more importantly, us MS'ers do not gain from any knowledge furthered from the exchange of ideas; the whole purpose of a forum as this.

For those wishing to see the original post that Dr Amir speaks of, I think it was this one from Oct 2010 by Dr Flanagan?
http://www.thisisms.com/forum/chronic-c ... ml#p136726

I appreciate you pointing this important point out.

My story which you call facetious was clearly meant as a bit of light hearted entertainment and this was immediately cleared out in the next posting so that some idiot would not get carried away with the thought that there was any truth in it. You could not help preaching that I was wrong.

You appear to have a consistent habit of nit picking on every post and deflect the readers from the important points at issue. I need the patients to know about something very important for the management of their symptoms. There are too many patients ending up with surgery that they did not need and also treatment which is potentially harmful or not necessary.

I am reading many threads and if I find something that I feel I must point out I shall do so for the furtherance of knowledge. Dr Flanagan is an esteemed practitioner and this was posted on his thread more than a year ago. There are many other postings that I totally disagree with but I do not want to upset anyone. Dr Flanagan appears also to have been more correct about many serious issues on MS than anyone else on these threads. I did not intentionally want to discredit any individual but just want to raise the issue. What I quoted is a common belief in Chiropractic and must be dispelled. Just about any Chiro could have said it not just Dr Flanagan. So it was the POINT I was raising not the person who made the statement. You cannot help letting the cat out of the bag!

Yes, well it's the way things are done, that speak for themselves. So, I agree, if you disagree with a point Dr F made, why not just discuss it with him, on the thread where he stated what you disagree with, instead of basically calling him insane on your own thread.

whyRwehere wrote:Yes, well it's the way things are done, that speak for themselves. So, I agree, if you disagree with a point Dr F made, why not just discuss it with him, on the thread where he stated what you disagree with, instead of basically calling him insane on your own thread.

You are calling him insane. I appreciate his posts and worth reading.

Hmmm, how do you figure that? I see you do not like to be disagreed with, but at least I am disagreeing with you on your thread about the manner in which you write, where you can read it. If you choose to ignore my point, that is up to you.

whyRwehere wrote:Hmmm, how do you figure that? I see you do not like to be disagreed with, but at least I am disagreeing with you on your thread about the manner in which you write, where you can read it. If you choose to ignore my point, that is up to you.

I love being disagreed with on the salient point of my posting. I do not appreciate the demeaning of my postings by being nit picked and the readers deflected from some important issues. I also write some points where I would like someone with some knowledge to discuss it further and not get a post from some who have nothing better to do other than be of a nuisance value.

This is an interesting thread. I have TMJ dysfunction, and have not ever been diagnosed with MS, but I have long thought there is a link between symptoms of TMJ dysfunction and symptoms of MS. One Maxillofacial consultant I saw about my TMJ even suggested I should see a neurologist as he thought my symptoms could possibly be MS, but I never went to the neurologist.
In my experience TMJ dysfunction is really not well understood by the majority of the medical profession, so all the many doctors I have seen over years have not connected my symptoms with my TMJ dysfunction, and I have been on a run around with GPs, doctors and dentists for years.

I have discovered through my own research that there is a list of TMJ symptoms called the Kinnie Funt Index. I also noticed that this list of symptoms is very similar to lists of symptoms I have found for MS.
The symptoms I have and believe are due to TMJ dysfunction are really awful and difficult to live with, and I have suffered with constant debilitating symptoms since 1995 at the age of 23.

I am now having treatment for my TMJ dysfunction with a dentist who also specializes in treating the TMJ, though my treatment is not with Dr Amir.
I honestly believe in what Dr Amir is saying in his posts, and that he is genuinely trying to help.

amanda6 wrote:
I am now having treatment for my TMJ dysfunction with a dentist who also specializes in treating the TMJ, though my treatment is not with Dr Amir.
I honestly believe in what Dr Amir is saying in his posts, and that he is genuinely trying to help.

Hello Amanda and Welcome.

What treatment are you undertaking with your dentist? (If you don't mind me asking).

amanda6 wrote:This is an interesting thread. I have TMJ dysfunction, and have not ever been diagnosed with MS, but I have long thought there is a link between symptoms of TMJ dysfunction and symptoms of MS. One Maxillofacial consultant I saw about my TMJ even suggested I should see a neurologist as he thought my symptoms could possibly be MS, but I never went to the neurologist.
In my experience TMJ dysfunction is really not well understood by the majority of the medical profession, so all the many doctors I have seen over years have not connected my symptoms with my TMJ dysfunction, and I have been on a run around with GPs, doctors and dentists for years.

I have discovered through my own research that there is a list of TMJ symptoms called the Kinnie Funt Index. I also noticed that this list of symptoms is very similar to lists of symptoms I have found for MS.
The symptoms I have and believe are due to TMJ dysfunction are really awful and difficult to live with, and I have suffered with constant debilitating symptoms since 1995 at the age of 23.

I am now having treatment for my TMJ dysfunction with a dentist who also specializes in treating the TMJ, though my treatment is not with Dr Amir.
I honestly believe in what Dr Amir is saying in his posts, and that he is genuinely trying to help.

Amanda
I appreciate your post. It is high time that MSers woke upto reality and they can only do that through intelligent input like yours.

EJC wrote: Hello Amanda and Welcome.

What treatment are you undertaking with your dentist? (If you don't mind me asking).

I had orthodontics when I was a child in the 1980s. I had 4 premolars extracted and fixed braces.

My current dental treatment is expand my narrow upper arch with orthodontics, and to enable my lower jaw to reposition further forward when I bite. Before treatment I had an MRI of my TMJ which showed I have displaced discs with reduction on both sides of my TMJ.

amanda6 wrote:

EJC wrote: Hello Amanda and Welcome.

What treatment are you undertaking with your dentist? (If you don't mind me asking).

I had orthodontics when I was a child in the 1980s. I had 4 premolars extracted and fixed braces.

My current dental treatment is expand my narrow upper arch with orthodontics, and to enable my lower jaw to reposition further forward when I bite. Before treatment I had an MRI of my TMJ which showed I have displaced discs with reduction on both sides of my TMJ.

Thanks Amanda, Have you had any of your vertebrae looked at for misalingment, damage or anything else untoward or is all the treatment currently concentrated on the TMJ?

EJC wrote: Thanks Amanda, Have you had any of your vertebrae looked at for misalingment, damage or anything else untoward or is all the treatment currently concentrated on the TMJ?

As I also suffer with low back pain, and neck pain I have had an MRI of my lower back and neck. The MRI showed a protruding disc in my lower back at L5 S1 which the MRI report says is impinging my right S1 nerve. In my neck it showed a protruding disc at C5 C6.
I have also had XRays of my neck which shows I have a straightened neck which does not have the normal lordotic neck curve.
I believe my back and neck problems are the result of having the lower jaw positioned too far back due to my bite.

amanda6 wrote:

EJC wrote: Thanks Amanda, Have you had any of your vertebrae looked at for misalingment, damage or anything else untoward or is all the treatment currently concentrated on the TMJ?

As I also suffer with low back pain, and neck pain I have had an MRI of my lower back and neck. The MRI showed a protruding disc in my lower back at L5 S1 which the MRI report says is impinging my right S1 nerve. In my neck it showed a protruding disc at C5 C6.
I have also had XRays of my neck which shows I have a straightened neck which does not have the normal lordotic neck curve.
I believe my back and neck problems are the result of having the lower jaw positioned too far back due to my bite.

Amir will be along shortly and will probably comment on this. I also believe there is a connection of this nature.