This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Knowledge & Support Community

THEGREEKFROMTHED wrote:.
He is a very passionate guy and and outside of the box thinker. On exam and xray no doubt my jaw is out of alignment, has been since i took a shoulder to the jaw in a basketball game in the 8th grade. I simply have clicking in the left side, where the xray shows that additional space in the drum or joint area, and our plan is to wear a top and bottom appliance for a while to see if anything does anything! Is this what you do? Probably not, but just like CCSVI where i was one of Sclafanis first 10 patients, I have to try or die. It doesnt pay to be the pioneer, but time isnt on my side so meanwhile we took impressions and I will wear the appliances day and night just for shits and giggles. Wish me luck for trying...

I sincerely wish that it works out for you. It is definitely a step in THE RIGHT DIRECTION!

Greek, Keep looking for the answer.
You will NOT die trying and your quest will
be rewarded somewhere. You are
on the right track. Persistence & determination win.
We are ALL in your corner.

THEGREEKFROMTHED wrote:.


When you finally get your protocol up and running then I will give it a try but until then I enjoy confusing Dr's and bringing radical theories to them. I actually think they enjoy it. In fact Dr Kline was cool as hell. Does he know what you know Dr A? Maybe in a round about way, but if COlumbus wouldnt have jumped his ass in that boat things would be a lot different. No moss growing under THEGREEKFROMTHED's posterior....Gotta try the other side is just too wonderful....

An open mind is the hardest step to start with. Post your findings on here "Greek".

Together, the few of us that are willing to be pioneers and choose to broadcast what we do make the difference. I wish you good luck!

Maybe I missed it but is anyone in the U.S. looking into offering this procedure? From the spotty reading I've done so far this definitely interesting. Maybe it has something to offer to us ms patients. I have pursued AO treatment but have taken a temporary hiatus. My x-rays show a misaligned atlas. I had temporary improvements from a ccsvi treatmentut they seemed to have been short lived. My energy is better but my balance and walking never seemed to improve. (which was why I sought AO treatment.) The dental work I've had done was removal of wisdom teeth at 19. A history of whip lash type injuries (fender benders, sport injuries, falls).Both my daudhter and I had postpartum optic neuritis and similar history of injuries. She wore braces as a teen and had her wisdom removed also. I saw a dental surgeon last year to have a tooth removed. His mother has MS. I wonder if he would be interested in this. I never had the RR form of MS. Since I've always struggled with the auto immune theory I haven't used the recommended drugs that many of the neurologists prescribe. Just need to take the time to read up on things. Things are getting interesting.

coach wrote:Maybe I missed it but is anyone in the U.S. looking into offering this procedure? From the spotty reading I've done so far this definitely interesting. Maybe it has something to offer to us ms patients. I have pursued AO treatment but have taken a temporary hiatus. My x-rays show a misaligned atlas. I had temporary improvements from a ccsvi treatmentut they seemed to have been short lived. My energy is better but my balance and walking never seemed to improve. (which was why I sought AO treatment.) The dental work I've had done was removal of wisdom teeth at 19. A history of whip lash type injuries (fender benders, sport injuries, falls).Both my daudhter and I had postpartum optic neuritis and similar history of injuries. She wore braces as a teen and had her wisdom removed also. I saw a dental surgeon last year to have a tooth removed. His mother has MS. I wonder if he would be interested in this. I never had the RR form of MS. Since I've always struggled with the auto immune theory I haven't used the recommended drugs that many of the neurologists prescribe. Just need to take the time to read up on things. Things are getting interesting.

A bit late in the day but here is a brief synopsis of an extensive article:
http://www.positivehealth.com/article/d ... extraction

THEGREEKFROMTHED wrote:.
He is a very passionate guy and and outside of the box thinker. On exam and xray no doubt my jaw is out of alignment, has been since i took a shoulder to the jaw in a basketball game in the 8th grade. I simply have clicking in the left side, where the xray shows that additional space in the drum or joint area, and our plan is to wear a top and bottom appliance for a while to see if anything does anything! Is this what you do? Probably not, but just like CCSVI where i was one of Sclafanis first 10 patients, I have to try or die. It doesnt pay to be the pioneer, but time isnt on my side so meanwhile we took impressions and I will wear the appliances day and night just for shits and giggles. Wish me luck for trying...

I hope this works for you, Greek! What EJC is reporting about neuropathic pain subsiding is impressive.

Hi Dr. Amir,

A quick question: In the patients you have treated with MS, have you noticed improvement in their pain and/or motor skills? Also, have you noticed if there is a difference in improvement in pain and/or motor skills between RRMS, SPMS, and PPMS?

Appreciate your input!

HappyPoet wrote:Hi Dr. Amir,

A quick question: In the patients you have treated with MS, have you noticed improvement in their pain and/or motor skills? Also, have you noticed if there is a difference in improvement in pain and/or motor skills between RRMS, SPMS, and PPMS?

Appreciate your input!

Hello
You must appreciate that I have only recently gotten into the depths, nooks and crannies of MS. I have previously treated them just like any other illness where one wants to ensure that the patient has no pain primarily. In this I have been extremely successful. Most pains are structurally related and are corrected through providing balance to the patients' cranium and the rest of the skeleton.

I think very few pains, if any, are related to 'demyelination'. Many patients are told that their pain is due to MS and nothing other than analgesics can help them. I shall quote a few testimonials and some MSers may realise that perhaps the pain they are suffering is NOT related to MS:

"Many thanks for fixing my back last week. Agony to bliss in three days isn't bad! I'm always amazed that such apparently abstract treatment has such an effect on wellbeing. Suffice to say I remain in your debt and will continue to champion your methods amongst my more sceptical associates until they too see the light!"

"Thank you for making me feel 20 years younger! My sister, [name excluded] whom you are working miracles with in terms of her MS, gave me a birthday present of a consultation with yourself to see if I could benefit from rebalancing my atlas/axis. I am a keen squash player, but in the last 7 years have had considerable hip and knee pain, necessitating 5 operations and many, many visits to a physiotherapist to try to work out why I was experiencing pain and how to mitigate it. I really enjoy playing all racquet sports and do not want to give them up, but at times it was just too painful to carry on – not only on a squash court, but just walking normally was difficult. What I didn’t realise was that most, if not all of it was down to my spine/shoulder girdle and pelvis not being aligned correctly.
Now that I have been rebalanced, I actually feel amazingly different – no knee or hip pain and I feel completely balanced. It has put a big, big smile on my face and I am recommending you to some of my friends, who have not been able to resolve neck or back problems. In the last week I have completed a charity walk of 13 miles, cycled to my parents and back (35 miles) and played in a squash tournament – with no pain whatsoever!
I can see that your vision is a result of being able to see the whole person and deal with the root cause of what’s wrong, instead of applying ‘pills and potions’ to deal with symptoms. I wish that the rest of the medical profession would take a leaf out of your book – it works! "

I coud carry on and on with testimonials but just from these two testimonials some of you will probably realise that MS is not what you have largely been led to believe, It is perhaps more treatable than many think - without drugs.

Patients arriving give a history of pain which has stretched back 40 years. If an afferent nerve is pounding away millions of times a minute telling you there is something wrong and all you do is pump in some pain killers the efferent motor nerve which has also been pounding away millions of times, trying to correct the asymmetry, is finally going to give up and is eventually going to cease and bring on incapacities largely seen in MSers which even CCSVI appears to fail in correcting in a large number of patients.

Therefore early intervention to correct asymmetries is the key before any physical effects on mobility set in.

Amir wrote:Most pains are structurally related and are corrected through providing balance to the patients' cranium and the rest of the skeleton.
I think very few pains, if any, are related to 'demyelination'.
...snip...
Therefore early intervention to correct asymmetries is the key before any physical effects on mobility set in.

Do you believe that it is only the ms pain which are mostly related to structural issues and not demylination? or is it similarily also our disabilities (ataxia and such)?

Do you believe that it is only the ms pain which are mostly related to structural issues and not demylination? or is it similarily also our disabilities (ataxia and such)?

Ataxia is an Inability to coordinate voluntary muscle movements; unsteady movements and staggering gait. These have a lot to do with occipital asymmetry.

you go Dr Amir!! Tame this monster!!

THEGREEKFROMTHED wrote:you go Dr Amir!! Tame this monster!!

I WILL

Hi Dr. A, can you help with some understanding how pain 'occurs'.

It seems we have MS pain and 'other pain' that medicals are at a loss to explain to us. I am wondering what the process is that sends the message and how that creates the feeling. It seems odd to me that there can be 'imagined pain' and 'real pain', and that pain can be caused in places no where near the cause. The sensations we experience are as accurate as the real thing yet we can 'see' that there is no problem.

Its a bit confusing and even when they experiment with pain drugs and exercise to change or modify pain, why do somethings work in some areas and not others?

And why do some things work for a while and then fail to help after a time?

And as well as that why do some pains change with infections or stress that are independent of the pain area?

Thanks and Regards,
Nigel

NZer1 wrote:Hi Dr. A, can you help with some understanding how pain 'occurs'.

It seems we have MS pain and 'other pain' that medicals are at a loss to explain to us. I am wondering what the process is that sends the message and how that creates the feeling. It seems odd to me that there can be 'imagined pain' and 'real pain', and that pain can be caused in places no where near the cause. The sensations we experience are as accurate as the real thing yet we can 'see' that there is no problem.

Its a bit confusing and even when they experiment with pain drugs and exercise to change or modify pain, why do somethings work in some areas and not others?

And why do some things work for a while and then fail to help after a time?

And as well as that why do some pains change with infections or stress that are independent of the pain area?

Thanks and Regards,
Nigel

Nigel
Either I could do some research or give you an answer of the top of my head.
To me pain is pain. There is neither 'MS' pain nor 'Other' pain. There is NEVER any imagined pain. Pain is very REAL. To describe real pain as 'other' or 'imagined' pain is often a means of fobbing off the patient and perhaps direct them to psychiatric medication as their 'NON REAL pain' cannot be treated. "We only treat REAL PAIN and we have tons of analgesics for that".
Nothing could be more harmful than enrol into such a screwed up philosophy to treat REAL pain that 99% of patients experience. It delays the proper care of the patient in good time and makes their ailments more chronic and more difficult to treat as is evidenced by many patients grouped into 'auto-immune' disorders.

The description of how pain occurs, how it is interpreted and how we experience pain is of little consequence to the patient and extensive literature is available in physiology. The research is geared to find the organic physiological mechanisms 'So that drugs can be found to interrupt this mechanism' - a dastardly act (except at the end game when there is no return).

Pain is a warning that something is wrong which needs to be put right. Our body is absolutely amazing. With the right treatment pain disappears almost instantly. Where it does not, something is wrong with the treatment and perhaps a different approach is required.

Our body is mightier than any potion that a patient takes and the nerve innervation soon overcomes poor attempts at taking care of it.

Our bodies can tolerate one assault but not the second and then a third. Infections and stress undermine the body already under immense stress from the original problem that it is barely able to contend with additional stimuli. The body is one whole unit. The experience of one area affects every other area.

Thanks Dr A,
This is where I get confused when Dr.s and Neuro's talk about the pain experiences in MS. It seems from what I understand, the damage done to the nerves within the brain, the axons and the nerve ends in 'MS' are what causes the pain sensation.

If that is the case are there adjustments that would help?

I get told things like the nerves aren't sending correct signals so the mind interprets this as pain. There doesn't seem to be anyway that an adjustment would help with type of pain.
I can see that identifying what is causing the pain by trying adjustment would be of use, the challenge as you say is whether the adjustment is correct for the problem and or the Practitioner is competent in the required adjustment.
Is there testing of nerves that is appropriate to give an understanding of nerve conduction that will give indication of outcome rather than a hit and miss adjustment process, that tends to have repeats and ongoing expense?

How do we find out what is going on in MS so that we can have quality of life?

The other challenge is the financial cost of all these experiments as they will be like the icicle theory of MS we spoke of before. I assume that if we are in the pigeon hole of 'MS' or similar diseases we are in the too hard basket or the basket the Government National Health Help bypasses.

So we have to finance this experiment by selling everything we have, with no guarantee of benefit, if you get my drift?

Regards Nigel