This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

I'd discussed the MRI thing with Amir on more than one occasion. He suggests it would certainly add to the documentation of the treatment and relative condition of the patient before, during and after treatment.

But it's not necessary for anything other than this and a such is a luxury expense for anyone that would wish to undertake it.

From what I can see it would be useful if trying to get modern medicine to accept the treatment when accompanied by other data, but other than not much benefit.

I have been reading this thread with great interest and have a question.

In middle aged and older people with MS can jaw realignment be done successfully with a missing back molar that still has its 'partner'. I suppose the 'partner' tooth may move a bit out off the jaw without the extracted tooth to keep it in place.

In some people it may be very difficult to get the implant due to not enough bone or perhaps other problems. In other words do you recommend people do everything they can bone graft etc to get an implant so that there are an equal number of teeth or can treatment money be put to work on aligning the jaw without necessarily adding a a 'tooth'? (I realize that having an even number of teeth must be ideal but may not be practical if years have passed after a tooth has been pulled out).

EJC wrote:This isn't a single shot medical procedure like CCSVI - you can't simply produce a scan of here's before - malformed valves - here's after - no malformed valves - lovely flow.
...snip...
What exactly do you expect or want to see from photographs or scans? Surely what is of more interest is if it's helping relieve symptoms of "MS"?

Again, I am not looking for a patients whole history of treatment. If this is an actual treatment then there must be some scientifically identifiable visible portrayal of the issue. I am sure Amir is not conjuring up the evil spirits of MS to tell him what needs to be done, he is "seeing" something, which others are not. I am just asking to be shown "this". Its possible that this provision may trigger others around the world to see what he does, and spread a possible "cure" for this debilitating disease.

If we were ONLY interested in "helping relieve symptoms of MS" we would do no better than following the latest lotion and potion salesman. We have a medical condition, Amir is presenting a medical treatment, I would expect it could be documented in medical language, which would include photos and or scans.

Having multiple images is not problem. There are thousands of free image hosting sites, and you can use links instead of displaying the image if you are scared of breaking the formatting of the thread.

jamit wrote:I have been reading this thread with great interest and have a question.

In middle aged and older people with MS can jaw realignment be done successfully with a missing back molar that still has its 'partner'. I suppose the 'partner' tooth may move a bit out off the jaw without the extracted tooth to keep it in place.

In some people it may be very difficult to get the implant due to not enough bone or perhaps other problems. In other words do you recommend people do everything they can bone graft etc to get an implant so that there are an equal number of teeth or can treatment money be put to work on aligning the jaw without necessarily adding a a 'tooth'? (I realize that having an even number of teeth must be ideal but may not be practical if years have passed after a tooth has been pulled out).

I have often wondered that implant surgeons ought to be able to implant in areas where the wisdom teeth have been extracted. My son, who is an implant surgeon and a periodontist in the USA, advises that it is possible but often the teeth have been extracted because there was no "room" for them. That "room" does not become available for an implant as the jaw is still in its restricted position.

Many years ago I watched Dr. Brånemark, a Swedish orthopedic surgeon and research professor, touted as the "father of modern dental implantology" perform implant surgery into tiny bits of jaw bone in the wisdom teeth areas of upper edentulous patients. However, in these cases the rest of the teeth were missing.

If I sent every MS patient to first have such teeth replaced would be mosly a futile operation and waste valuable time as the earlier the jaw correction the better the chances of recovery for a patient. Implantology can be deferred to a later stage or its need in the wisdom teeth area lessened.

CureOrBust wrote:

EJC wrote:This isn't a single shot medical procedure like CCSVI - you can't simply produce a scan of here's before - malformed valves - here's after - no malformed valves - lovely flow.
...snip...
What exactly do you expect or want to see from photographs or scans? Surely what is of more interest is if it's helping relieve symptoms of "MS"?

Again, I am not looking for a patients whole history of treatment. If this is an actual treatment then there must be some scientifically identifiable visible portrayal of the issue. I am sure Amir is not conjuring up the evil spirits of MS to tell him what needs to be done, he is "seeing" something, which others are not. I am just asking to be shown "this". Its possible that this provision may trigger others around the world to see what he does, and spread a possible "cure" for this debilitating disease.

If we were ONLY interested in "helping relieve symptoms of MS" we would do no better than following the latest lotion and potion salesman. We have a medical condition, Amir is presenting a medical treatment, I would expect it could be documented in medical language, which would include photos and or scans.

Having multiple images is not problem. There are thousands of free image hosting sites, and you can use links instead of displaying the image if you are scared of breaking the formatting of the thread.

Ok I'll ask again.

What images/scans would you like to see and what do you expect to glean from these images?

I'm asking you this question because I simply don't understand what could be shown by a scan or image that would answer your question above. What do you want to see?

I know of half a dozen dentists in the UK that claim to offer similar treatments (most for 5 to 10 times he cost) but none that offer this in combination with treatment of the Atlas and associated areas as Amir does. You also need to consider the logtistics.

With a CCSVI procedure you have a static patient in a theatre, you have a before scan - the procedure - an after scan - pretty simple and straightforward.

Lets take Thelka's post on this thread as an example of how different misalignment treatment is.

Thekla wrote:It has been just over three weeks since I got my brace from Dr Amir. It is just amazing how quickly changes were evident. After an exhausting daytrip to London and stopping at every toilet between Frankfurt and Putney despite skipping breakfast and coffee after being fitted with my upper brace, my bladder just calmed down. I was fine the entire drive back to Heathrow through traffic. We had time so headed straight to a pub for food and some tea. After the morning's experience, I expected to be headed right back to the toilet before boarding the plane but I only stopped because it always seems like a good idea before a flight. I was fine the entire flight and the drive home as well! For me, that is just so exciting, but I can also stand steadier without wobbling. I was having problems balancing to pull up my pants before. The first weekend, I noticed that I was standing mixing some things in a pot rather than collecting my ingredients and sitting down to work with them. My legs just don't have that tingly-numb ms-y feel. They are by no means normal yet but it is distinct improvement. I can imagine working out with them again because they are starting to feel like legs. I'm sleeping better as well.

I'm excited to find out how much more is possible. I think this could be my missing puzzle piece after ccsvi. I know some have found diet or lyme finished it for them. I think this needs to be considered as well. More published studies would help. Maybe we all do just have a cumulative series of unfortunate coincidences that are called ms. I would love ms to become like the 'vapours' of Victorian times that have quietly evaporated from medical literature.

So Thelka flys to London from Germany - has a brace fitted (which was made same day specifically for her) and she documents her improvements as small adjustments are made to the brace and it gradually starts to move her mouth/teeth into the right position. Does she fly back from Germany to have scans/images taken? And what scans and images are being taken that will tell us anything?

Emma is having this treatment and 8 months in I can see her teeth have moved and are a lot straighter, we're now starting treatment that is "pulling" her jaws forward. In total this will take a couple of years. During this couple of years we document the movement in words and images but long term.

CCSVI - before and after = 3 hours
Jaw misalignment before and after = 2 to 3 years.

You're trying to apply the image/scan logic of the former to the latter and it's not viable.

What Amir is doing is asking each patient to complete very extensive questionnaires throughout the treatment with which details the progress of individual symptoms. I provides a snapshot of each patients real time experiences over a period of months/years. But again, these are only something that can be completely absorbed at end of treatment or close to end treatment. It would be pointless taking one snapshot on it's own without all the others to reference against.

I think what Cure or Bust is asking for is some kind of criteria of what constitutes a problem? With ccsvi, there is the ultrasound or mri, depending on where you go that shows or at least strongly indicates flow disturbances or blockages in the ijvs. Some have been scanned at home to identify the problem before deciding to invest and possibly travel for treatment. I read so much from you guys already being treated and dental distress syndrome and then decided London wasn't that far. We went to be evaluated from Amir, hoping there would be a problem that could be fixed. But I couldn't figure out myself ahead of time whether I had a problem.

Thekla wrote:I think what Cure or Bust is asking for is some kind of criteria of what constitutes a problem? With ccsvi, there is the ultrasound or mri, depending on where you go that shows or at least strongly indicates flow disturbances or blockages in the ijvs. Some have been scanned at home to identify the problem before deciding to invest and possibly travel for treatment. I read so much from you guys already being treated and dental distress syndrome and then decided London wasn't that far. We went to be evaluated from Amir, hoping there would be a problem that could be fixed. But I couldn't figure out myself ahead of time whether I had a problem.

I think I understand what He's asking for - principally an image of what's wrong that requires correcting.

I'm not exactly sure how it would be possible to capture that image.

Of the 20 or so patients that converse regularly not one of their images would look the same as another. In principal they are all receiving treatment based on a similar premis, but that treatment when tailored for each individual is different to a degree that no one image or images would describe it in any way useful.

Also it's worth remembering that this treatment was not devised to help people with "MS" it was stumbled upon when a Patient with MS approached Amir for treatment for a jaw issue and subsequently found (over a period of considerable time) that her MS regressed to a point where it isn't noticeable. It was then that Amir started studying MS.

It's why he posts as many questions as answers on this forum as He is still learning himself.

Thekla wrote:I think what Cure or Bust is asking for is some kind of criteria of what constitutes a problem? With ccsvi, there is the ultrasound or mri, depending on where you go that shows or at least strongly indicates flow disturbances or blockages in the ijvs. Some have been scanned at home to identify the problem before deciding to invest and possibly travel for treatment. I read so much from you guys already being treated and dental distress syndrome and then decided London wasn't that far. We went to be evaluated from Amir, hoping there would be a problem that could be fixed. But I couldn't figure out myself ahead of time whether I had a problem.

A vast majority of Europeans and people living in urbanised communities will have some degree of an underlying jaw problem which very often, they are not even aware of.

If any medical problem exists the Lateral Pterygoid muscle in the mouth becomes very painful (please google for explanation). This can be palpated by a competent Chiro or Osteopath to confirm.

Most illnesses have this as a common denominator but the expression of the illness is different in different patients. One may have simple headaches while another may have serious Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (An erroneous cooked up entity), and yet another one may be classified into MS (Another questionable entity). .

MSers on this thread are more concerned with their own symptoms. It has been proven beyond doubt amongst my patients that many symptoms that they were previously led to attribute to 'brain lesions' had absolutely nothing to do with 'brain lesions'.

I keep impressing upon the fact that the nature of the problem is extremely subtle. I often mention that many people are hanging by the skin of their teeth.

Yesterday a gentleman born in India but brought up in the west came along for a consultation. He had the most exquisite teeth and a smile like those Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes. One could never imagine that his teeth were causing his rapidly deteriorating 'MS' and yet they are. No one including very astute observers of human dentition could possibly discern that his teeth might be the root cause of his problem. I have my neck on the block here but I am pretty sure he will get better rapidly. (I shall keep you posted or rather I will get him to post)

If I put his photo up with his amazing dazzling teeth everyone will think I am absolutely crazy. Before and after pictures will show absolutely no change.

The teeth and jaw problems amongst most patients are recognisable much more easily. Visiting a local dentist and asking him to palpate the jaw muscles could help confirm the diagnosis.

I came across a recent article:

http://www.alternet.org/story/153332/se ... age=entire

"Supply-driven marketing, also known as "Have Drug, Need Disease and Patients” not only turns the nation into pill-popping hypochondriacs, it distracts from Pharma's drought of real drugs for real medical problems. Of course, not all diseases are Wall Street pleasers. To be a true blockbuster disease, a condition must:

(1) Really exist but have "huge diagnostic wiggle room" and no clear-cut test.
(2) Be potentially serious with "silent symptoms" said to "only get worse" if untreated,
(3) Be "under recognised", "under reported" with "barriers" to treatment,
(4) Explain hitherto vague health problems a patient has had,
(5) Have a catchy name like ED, ADHD, RLS, Low T or IBS and instant medical identity, and
(6) Need an expensive new drug that has no generic equivalent."

My experience shows that perhaps ME/CFS, FM, MS, RA and so on should also be added to these "incurable" diseases that need expensive permanent medication till death do us part!

I came across a recent article:
http://www.alternet.org/story/153332/se ... age=entire

"Supply-driven marketing, also known as "Have Drug, Need Disease and Patients” not only turns the nation into pill-popping hypochondriacs, it distracts from Pharma's drought of real drugs for real medical problems. Of course, not all diseases are Wall Street pleasers. To be a true blockbuster disease, a condition must:

(1) Really exist but have "huge diagnostic wiggle room" and no clear-cut test.
(2) Be potentially serious with "silent symptoms" said to "only get worse" if untreated,
(3) Be "under recognised", "under reported" with "barriers" to treatment,
(4) Explain hitherto vague health problems a patient has had,
(5) Have a catchy name like ED, ADHD, RLS, Low T or IBS and instant medical identity, and
(6) Need an expensive new drug that has no generic equivalent."

My experience shows that perhaps ME/CFS, FM, MS, RA and so on should also be added to these "incurable" diseases that need expensive permanent medication till death do us part!

^ I think that's the people Amir was trying to contact but has so far been unsuccessful.

dania wrote:http://www.biomedreports.com/2011110282561/diagnostic-breakthrough-in-multiple-sclerosis-with-fonar-upright-mri-leads-to-noninvasive-treatment-that-results-in-symptoms-of-ms-patient-subsiding.html

Thank you for posting this link. This I feel is the most significant article published regarding MS that I have ever read. However I feel the need to make some observations:

While thoroughly studying the original paper I note that the authors infer that the CSF leakage is into the 'brain parenchyma' and they speculate that this is what causes the brain lesions and subsequent symptoms of MS.

My study of the images that were shown suggests that the leakage is into the stroma (connective tissue) of the brain and hence unlikely to be responsible for the symptoms of MS in a major percentage of the cases. (I remain corrected on this count)

Further speculation in the article points to the conventional myelin sheath breakdown hypothesis.

Correction of the physical obstruction emanating from rotated cervical vertabrae appears to have immediately relieved the symptoms of dizziness and vomiting in one patient.

This cannot have happened in the presence of the purported 'myelin damage' which would take much longer to correct the lesion if, such myelin breakdown, was responsible for the dizziness and vomiting in the subject.

Therefore the "Brain lesions" must be inconsequential in this case.

The paper points to traumatic injury to the cervical vertebrae resulting in the symptoms of MS. It is pretty obvious that physical injury needs physical means to correct.

Where do the drugs fit in?

Injury to the cervical vertebrae has very many causes. Many patients labelled with 'MS' will more than likely say that they never injured their neck. However the presence of neck pain (and cervical malrotations) or discomfort is universal in most patients presenting with MS, ME/CFS, FM and very many other illnesses.

These malrotations of the cervical vertabrae are not exclusive to injury but are often consequential upon the modern day processed food diets as theorised by Dr. Weston Price some 70 years ago. At that time Dr. Price was looking only at the development of facial and dental asymmetries in urbanised societies perhaps not realising the huge impact on the neck spine.

The health of the neck spine appears crucial. It is firmly established that facial and dental asymmetries nearly always result in cervical rotations followed by a plethora of symptoms often 'medical' in nature but the causality is physical.

In many patients further gross interferences with the dental complex contribute to a deteriorating neck spine - perhaps leading to obstruction of the CSF flow as postulated in this article and the development of further symptoms which get 'drugged up' and essentially remain untreated and eventually result in the development of severe handicaps and other organic disturbances.

Physical causes need 'correct' physical treatment.

http://www.atlantotec.com/en/fundamenta ... agus-nerve
http://www.atlantotec.com/en/disorders/ ... h-grinding
Hi Dr. Amir I what to thank you very much for your effort to cure MS and I found the above links the same as your amazing theory.

Don't you just love those moving diagrams? Being a visual person I find I just get it the moment I see it. A picture is worth a thousand words.