Re: Study indicates CCSVI does not cause 'MS' in mice
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:26 pm
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Welcome to the forum.Kloklo86 wrote:Don't get too down hearted with a study because for me that really doesn't surprise me that the study shows that CCVI doesn't 'Cause' MS. Cause and effect relationships are very hard to establish for one and secondly CCVI may easily be a result of MS as inflammation (which as you know is what MS is) causes sticky blood and i guess this could then cause the CCVI? (again this is just me thinking out loud) it's natural to want to find the most effective cures but healthy scepticism is definitely needed and I'm sure this is why some of your neuros seem resistant to this idea.
Thoughts, views and any pointers to more research on this are much appreiciated
Welcome Kloklo86. I agree with Cece's comment. Mice do not get MS so CCSVI syndrome will not cause MS in mice. Lots of MS research falls into such traps.Cece wrote:Welcome to the forum.Kloklo86 wrote:Don't get too down hearted with a study because for me that really doesn't surprise me that the study shows that CCVI doesn't 'Cause' MS. Cause and effect relationships are very hard to establish for one and secondly CCVI may easily be a result of MS as inflammation (which as you know is what MS is) causes sticky blood and i guess this could then cause the CCVI? (again this is just me thinking out loud) it's natural to want to find the most effective cures but healthy scepticism is definitely needed and I'm sure this is why some of your neuros seem resistant to this idea.
Thoughts, views and any pointers to more research on this are much appreiciated
What frustrates me is when researchers get caught up on the cause-and-effect question, but what matters more is if treating people for CCSVI will help.
And here is new research on extracranial drainage of pigs.drsclafani wrote:I concede.squiffy2 wrote:
Mice that have their jugular veins ligated to simulate CCSVI do not develop any brain inflammation or demyelination, suggesting yet again that ‘veinous insufficiency’ does not cause multiple sclerosis.
Researchers from Harvard Medical School in the US took 20 mice, ligated both jugular veins and observed them for six months.
Fifteen control mice were given a sham ligation procedure and another eight were induced with experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis as negative controls.
Despite CT venography confirming the ligation produced hemodynamic changes, MRI demonstrated there were no signs of blood-brain barrier breakdown or neuroinflammation.
In addition, cytometry and histopathology showed ligation didn’t result in any increase in inflammatory cell populations or demyelination.
Moreover, no clinical signs were observed in any of the ligated mice.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/2944
This data is just overwhelming. This evidence gives us reason to pack up and go home.
I am going to throw away all my catheters and use my balloons for my grandson's birthday party.
On the other hand.... it took me two minutes to find out shockingly that the mouse brain IS DIFFERENT FROM THE human brain. NOt to mention that we don't even look like mice (any longer) and we stopped acting like mice sometime around 2007
The cerebral venous drainage of the mouse is not like that of the human. The major vein that drains the mouse intracranial circulation, is the retroglenoid vein that is a continuation of the transverse sinuses. It does not even exist in humans except as a rare anomaly. The internal jugular veins and the vertebral veins are not the major output.
Is this published in a journal? if so, which journal published this. what are the affiliations of the authors? who sponsored this research
read below...
Early April Fools
To correctly do animal research, the dominant drainage would need to be ligated. In us, that is the internal jugular veins. In pigs, it is the ventral vertebral venous plexus. In mice, it is the retroglenoid vein, if Dr. Sclafani's information is as correct as it appears.The majority of the cerebral blood flow in the pig appears to drain through the VVVP. Flow through the IJV comprised a nondominant component.
thanks for that, Cece! Great news from a great researcher-Cece wrote: And here is new research on extracranial drainage of pigs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23348984
To correctly do animal research, the dominant drainage would need to be ligated. In us, that is the internal jugular veins. In pigs, it is the ventral vertebral venous plexus. In mice, it is the retroglenoid vein, if Dr. Sclafani's information is as correct as it appears.The majority of the cerebral blood flow in the pig appears to drain through the VVVP. Flow through the IJV comprised a nondominant component.
This pig research came from Detroit Wayne University, same as Dr. Haacke. Hey! Dr. Haacke is even listed last among the authors. The obvious next step is to ligate pig VVVPs and see what happens neurologically.
Start on page 33 of the following http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/availa ... 012805.pdfCureOrBust wrote:Yes, a great find.
While reading the above, it made me think of "Putnams dogs". Do dogs have a more similar flow pattern to humans?