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Alright' i have been doing diet research, and i need to get 2500-3000 calories a day to prevent being anorexic at least ( i have fast metabolism). I really want to try a healthy MS diet, but i don't see how i could possibly get 2500-3000 calories eating lean meat, fruits, veggies and nuts (WHILE keep it low fat). Anyone have advice? (avoiding dairy, gluten and legumes)

hi tyr

this is just my opinion but avoidance diets don't address the underlying problems ie nutritional imbalances that give ms-ers GI issues.

IMHO, and that's all it is, you don't need to avoid gluten if your zinc status is optimal. in MS patients that is usually not the case.

your serum zinc level should be close to 18.2 - 18.4 umol/L based on a study of almost 1200 healthy controls. there are more studies to support a healthy zinc level in the high teens.

if yours is low teens like many ms-ers, or in the single digits like mine was at first test, then sure, avoid gluten. but that doesn't fix the reason you should avoid it in the first place.

i used to suffer when i ate bread. then i discovered and corrected my zinc deficiency. now bread and other gluteny products do not bother me.

legumes are the same deal, take a lot of zinc to digest.

whether you're talking gluten or legumes it's all about the phytic acid. a study:

Nutrition Research Volume 9, Issue 1, January 1989, Pages 127-132
Effect of soybean fiber and phytate on serum zinc response1
MSKim Cranwella and PhDMichael Liebman, a

Abstract
Changes in serum zinc levels after oral zinc administration was used as an index of zinc absorption. Ten adult males received a single dose of zinc gluconate on 5 separate occasions, either alone (control) or with 1 of 4 aifferent soybean treatments. The soybean treatments consisted of a high-fiber, high-phytate treatment (ground soybeans); a high-fiber, low-phytate treatment (dephytinized ground soybeans); a low-fiber, high-phytate treatment (tofu); and a low-fiber, low-phytate treatment (dephytinized tofu). The dephytinized soybean treatments yielded significantly higher postingestive serum zinc values than did the non-dephytinized treatments whereas no differences were observed between the high- and low-fiber treatments. These data suggested zinc absorption is more inhibited by soy phytate than by soy fiber.

so, you can eat high phytate foods but your zinc intake also has to be high or you start seeing the negatives of low zinc manifested in the various ways experienced by ms patients.

HTH!

Thanks for the reply. The reason why i was avoiding gluten and milk, was from a video i watched. The video said that casein and lecithin(in gluten), can promote immune cells to cross over the blood brain barrier and attack nerve cells. Have you heard of this before? Also is there really a problem with eating a lot of high fat foods like animal meats, nuts etc?

You can eat as much lean meat and fish as you want on the diet. There are no limits to the amount of food you can eat, just have to restrict the types of food you eat. I never seem to have a problem finding enough to eat, I have been on the diet for about five years now.

Here are a few things that can add calories to your diet:

rice pasta, chicken or turkey sausage, nut butters (almond, cashew, sunflower), smoothies (banana, rice milk, fruit juice blend), sweet potatoes, avocados, rice yogurt, veggies stir fried in olive oil, gluten free bread, corn tortilla fajitas.

I agree it's best to avoid dairy, gluten, legumes and saturated fats.

tzootsi wrote:Here are a few things that can add calories to your diet:

rice pasta, chicken or turkey sausage, nut butters (almond, cashew, sunflower), smoothies (banana, rice milk, fruit juice blend), sweet potatoes, avocados, rice yogurt, veggies stir fried in olive oil, gluten free bread, corn tortilla fajitas.

I agree it's best to avoid dairy, gluten, legumes and saturated fats.

What about just rice in general? Corn torillas sounds like a good one. Neither of those have gluten right?

Tyr616 wrote:

tzootsi wrote:Here are a few things that can add calories to your diet:

rice pasta, chicken or turkey sausage, nut butters (almond, cashew, sunflower), smoothies (banana, rice milk, fruit juice blend), sweet potatoes, avocados, rice yogurt, veggies stir fried in olive oil, gluten free bread, corn tortilla fajitas.

I agree it's best to avoid dairy, gluten, legumes and saturated fats.

What about just rice in general? Corn torillas sounds like a good one. Neither of those have gluten right?

Rice is fine, brown is better however. Corn is also fine. There are some that feel that NO grains or carbos are the way to go, but this is just too extreme for us. Potatoes are 'ok' , but shouldn't be eaten too often due to their high glycemic index. Once in a while my wife will buy some grass fed beef (which has less saturated fat & more omega-3 than regular beef), and make a beef stew - yum!. Oats used to be considered a no-no, but it turns out they are ok - they may have a microscopic amount of gluten from the mill they were processed in. Therefore oatmeal and granola (non-wheat) are ok. The grains to avoid are wheat, barley and rye. You can get gluten free beer (Redbridge), and it's actually quite good. There are some rice pastas that could pass for regular pasta, like Tinkyada. Rice milk is very tasty, as is rice milk ice cream.
You can drizzle olive oil or walnut oil over your salads, and add ground flax seed to many dishes.

hi tyr,

can you post a link to that video? i would be interested in checking it out.

actually one of the early protocols i followed (klenner, see my signature link below) included taking supplementary lecithin:

The hydrophilic nature of the lecithin molecule plays an important part in the structure and properties of cell membranes. It is the lipid used in nerve tissue. We give 1200 mg. Soybean Lecithin after each meal.

i was early in the learning curve and just took the lecithin without asking questions. it's hard to say which was the winning ingredient in my version of the klenner protocol, but for certain i recovered the most functionality with klenner, than with any other regimen that i've tried before or since. (i think it was mostly the b vitamins and vitamin E that really helped, also probably the high protein diet).

i don't cut out milk. i was a strict vegan for 15 years and i still got MS. i don't drink milkshakes or anything like that - but i put cream in coffee, milk in tea, i eat a couple spoons of yogurt with my breakfast fruit and granola, and i may or may not incorporate a little old cheddar into lunch or dinner.

yes i would recommend that you eat nuts, and seeds too, and also one red meat serving per week. two fatty fish servings (sustainable fishery certified salmon is a smart choice). make sure to eat lots of cruciferous veg too! and sweet potatoes are AWESOME good suggestion tzoo

hey, hehehe i just finished making a big pot of brown rice.. went into my vegetarian chili dinner to make a complete protein (along with my evil kidney legumes)...

IMHO, eheh, I tried gluthen free for about a year. It made NO difference. Now while I still kinda watch what I eat, I get my calories from beer. I know alot of peeps will disagree with me but, glutens did not makke a difference inmy symptoms. I pretty much take every citamin JL suggeted every morning, but glutens have not made a difference in anything for me.

GO BEER! ;) hi bubba

jimmylegs wrote:hi tyr,

can you post a link to that video? i would be interested in checking it out.

actually one of the early protocols i followed (klenner, see my signature link below) included taking supplementary lecithin:

The hydrophilic nature of the lecithin molecule plays an important part in the structure and properties of cell membranes. It is the lipid used in nerve tissue. We give 1200 mg. Soybean Lecithin after each meal.

i was early in the learning curve and just took the lecithin without asking questions. it's hard to say which was the winning ingredient in my version of the klenner protocol, but for certain i recovered the most functionality with klenner, than with any other regimen that i've tried before or since. (i think it was mostly the b vitamins and vitamin E that really helped, also probably the high protein diet).

i don't cut out milk. i was a strict vegan for 15 years and i still got MS. i don't drink milkshakes or anything like that - but i put cream in coffee, milk in tea, i eat a couple spoons of yogurt with my breakfast fruit and granola, and i may or may not incorporate a little old cheddar into lunch or dinner.

yes i would recommend that you eat nuts, and seeds too, and also one red meat serving per week. two fatty fish servings (sustainable fishery certified salmon is a smart choice). make sure to eat lots of cruciferous veg too! and sweet potatoes are AWESOME good suggestion tzoo

hey, hehehe i just finished making a big pot of brown rice.. went into my vegetarian chili dinner to make a complete protein (along with my evil kidney legumes)...

Sure its part of a 7 part video series, but im not sure which part of the video talks about it.

This is the first part.