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where do you live and work pesho? i can tell you that i follow the whole food part of the paleo regimen but not the elimination part. i just can't see primitive people walking past edible grains, beans, etc. they would have eaten anything and everything edible. do we overdo grains and legumes etc now? i think that is true. the signs are all over our society's typical illnesses. but i have learned the hard way that there's a price to be paid for outright elimation of broad categories of food. so i eat grains and legumes, in a limited way because i recognize their drain on my zinc resources, and i value their contribution to overall nutrition. plus i keep track of my zinc levels with bloodwork and supplement if necessary. moderation is, as always, the key. my 2c.

jimmlegs, that is a good observation. I know a few who follow a bible based diet. ( or what they say is a bible based diet)
That would throw out the paleo I THINK.. all this could lead to does any of this work at all.. can we find some holy water!!!

I have just been working at a remote location camp so fully catered which has made a paleo type diet quite easy. Cooked breakfast without the fried bread plus fruit salad, lunch - cold chicken or beef with salad, and dinner usually red meat with tons of veggies, a salad plus more fruit.

Eaten more red meat than I would consider ideal. However despite 22 12 hour days feel very well other than putting on a few Ilbs!

jimmylegs wrote:where do you live and work pesho? i can tell you that i follow the whole food part of the paleo regimen but not the elimination part. i just can't see primitive people walking past edible grains, beans, etc. they would have eaten anything and everything edible. do we overdo grains and legumes etc now? i think that is true. the signs are all over our society's typical illnesses. but i have learned the hard way that there's a price to be paid for outright elimation of broad categories of food. so i eat grains and legumes, in a limited way because i recognize their drain on my zinc resources, and i value their contribution to overall nutrition. plus i keep track of my zinc levels with bloodwork and supplement if necessary. moderation is, as always, the key. my 2c.

In Bulgaria, the capital Sofia. Maybe I don't know the places for organic stuff, but the one chicken meat I found was 50$ the kilogram(roughly 20$ the pound)!!!! That is just insane, 8 times the regular price. I've found out that if I cut down meat and processed food I feel much better. Will give it a shot, with more vegetables, potatoes and salads. Also, I can't seem to find kale around here .

that sounds cool mrb, what sort of camp?

pesho, if organic isn't in the picture, do what you can. personally the farm where i get my meat the various species of animals are NOT fed certified organic food. they have a sort of standard feed plus plenty of time to graze/forage i recently asked them to butcher a goat and they charged me $6/lb regardless of cut. so i have a leg, 1lb of stewing meat, 2lbs of ground, and 2lbs of chops.

processed foods are definitely of my list, but at the same time, never say never. for example i just came home from the store where i made an unusual detour through visit to the processed aisles. i didn't make it out without a little bag of khatta meetha indian snacks. it's the size of a one shot bag of potato chips but more dense, so 6 servings in the bag. i'll spread it out over the next few days. sue me, i was good today ;) i had fruit and yogurt for breakfast, giant salad topped with trail mix and a little goat cheese for lunch, homemade split pea soup for snack, and i'm having cod, sweet potato, potato, and asparagus for dinner later.

i bet you could find seeds and grow kale there. do you have a yard? if not, here's a vid re growing kale inside:

JL - Railway construction camp in the boonies! Building a new line to haul out iron ore to the coast.

Pesho wrote:

jimmylegs wrote:where do you live and work pesho? i can tell you that i follow the whole food part of the paleo regimen but not the elimination part. i just can't see primitive people walking past edible grains, beans, etc. they would have eaten anything and everything edible. do we overdo grains and legumes etc now? i think that is true. the signs are all over our society's typical illnesses. but i have learned the hard way that there's a price to be paid for outright elimation of broad categories of food. so i eat grains and legumes, in a limited way because i recognize their drain on my zinc resources, and i value their contribution to overall nutrition. plus i keep track of my zinc levels with bloodwork and supplement if necessary. moderation is, as always, the key. my 2c.

In Bulgaria, the capital Sofia. Maybe I don't know the places for organic stuff, but the one chicken meat I found was 50$ the kilogram(roughly 20$ the pound)!!!! That is just insane, 8 times the regular price. I've found out that if I cut down meat and processed food I feel much better. Will give it a shot, with more vegetables, potatoes and salads. Also, I can't seem to find kale around here .

Kale is really easy to grow. If it isn't sold locally try and get some seeds. Example below from UK ebay site. It is a great crop - can be grown throughout the year although prefers cooler weather so maybe a winter crop for bulgaria although its available year round in Western Australia where i am right now.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kale-Dwarf-Gr ... 35bbf7172b

mrbarlow wrote:

Pesho wrote:

jimmylegs wrote:where do you live and work pesho? i can tell you that i follow the whole food part of the paleo regimen but not the elimination part. i just can't see primitive people walking past edible grains, beans, etc. they would have eaten anything and everything edible. do we overdo grains and legumes etc now? i think that is true. the signs are all over our society's typical illnesses. but i have learned the hard way that there's a price to be paid for outright elimation of broad categories of food. so i eat grains and legumes, in a limited way because i recognize their drain on my zinc resources, and i value their contribution to overall nutrition. plus i keep track of my zinc levels with bloodwork and supplement if necessary. moderation is, as always, the key. my 2c.

In Bulgaria, the capital Sofia. Maybe I don't know the places for organic stuff, but the one chicken meat I found was 50$ the kilogram(roughly 20$ the pound)!!!! That is just insane, 8 times the regular price. I've found out that if I cut down meat and processed food I feel much better. Will give it a shot, with more vegetables, potatoes and salads. Also, I can't seem to find kale around here .

Kale is really easy to grow. If it isn't sold locally try and get some seeds. Example below from UK ebay site. It is a great crop - can be grown throughout the year although prefers cooler weather so maybe a winter crop for bulgaria although its available year round in Western Australia where i am right now.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kale-Dwarf-Gr ... 35bbf7172b

I can get Kale seeds, they are sold around here. My parents then can grow it, just I don't know what to do in the winter, since there is a lot of snow, and there is no way it will grow. Diet is hard to stick to, but I'm doing my best. Eating a lot of carrot and cabbage salads, will try to get at least organic vegetables.

Plant it in spring, harvest continually through summer and through winter into the following spring. Kale is very hardy and survives frost / snow. It was a major crop in scotland for both fodder and winter greens

Another question. Swank diet is low fat, while Wahls and paleo are not as far as I can tell. Can I eat beef and lamb freely, since here they are the most "organic" as they can be without the premium price tag?
I can get grass fed lamb, but I generally don't like it. All chicken meat is full with antibiotics and god knows what else, and the organic/bio chicken is like 25$ the pound, really not an option.

Does anyone ever wonder why so many of these "ms diest" are so far apart in theory.

The targets are different; for instance, Wahls is focused on the mitochondria. But it seems to me that all the diets share one feature: NO SUGAR.

pesho, you could do beef or lamb once or twice a week i should think. how often are you having fish?

Interesting, is it the no sugar? Or all they NO gluten??

And is anyone getting any better by following a diet, or are we all just deluding ourselves? Are any of us stronger, or able to walk better/further? I'm afraid I don't think so. I've had no slowing or improvements in 35 years, other than better sleep since CCSVI -- and time is not on my side. I'm 70, and in bed/wheelchair 24/7 and reduced to one finger typing. Valid options are limited.