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Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject:
mrhodes40 wrote:
since we are on the subject, are the b cells killed in treatment as well? just curious.
Yes, all the white blood cells are killed in the process. T and B cells.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
That is the cells MS lives in. By killing off those cells and letting your bone marrows' stem cells rebuild your immune system (AKA T- Cells and B-cells) without the bad influence of cells that think MS is OK, you now don't have MS.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject:
777 wrote:
Is that a good thing? What is the importance of the T and B cells?
Probably the best thing would be more specific, but at this point and considering the alternatives, yes it's a good thing.
777 wrote:
What is the importance of the T and B cells?
In reality the immune system constitutes a multitude of factors from the ph of your skin to the salt in your saliva, but in the world of MS the immune system is restricted to the T and B cells.
I kind of think of the B cells as the "chiefs" because they train the T cells to attack the myelin and the T cells as the Indians because they are the ones which actually attack the myelin.
That is the reason that Tovaxin is an ongoing process. You can eliminate the T cells which have been trained to attack the myelin, but the B cells are going to keep training new T cells.
Interesting subject. That's why I think Rituximab and Tovaxin would be a good combo. Treat someone with Tovaxin a few times to eliminate the mrtcs and hit them with a high dose of Rituximab to eliminate the B cells which keep training the mrtcs. Less offensive than HDC with the same end result.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 368 Location: Washington USA
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:
I asked because EBV lives in b cells forever once it has been contacted. Since a considerable amount of MS research seems to keep looking at that, I wondered if the EBV is gone as well and thought it might ossibly be another reason for effective therapy
My bias is that MS is probably not autoimmune--No don't argue with me, I realize some of us...Lyon....have good research to back up the other side but I still remain in the side of Behan and Chaudhuri
But taht doesn't mean something like this might not be very effective but for reasons other than we think.
I like it cause it seems to work in the small studies I saw (if you know more post on the research thread I started please) , it is not something with long term impact on your body, and I am all out of wait! EDSS 6, thank you very much, I have to do something and this seems pretty safe to me personally
marie
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3138 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject:
mrhodes40 wrote:
I am all out of wait! EDSS 6, thank you very much, I have to do something and this seems pretty safe to me personally
marie
I don't like the situation, but I do like your way of putting it! "I'm all out of wait" sounds like a solid, sensible way of putting it.
If I were in your situation, at this time, I'd beg, borrow or steal for the chance to let JH poison me. I'm sure I don't need to tell you that it would have been preferable to have had the option at a 1 or 2 EDSS.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: Mar 02, 2008 Posts: 83 Location: Lake Bodom, Finland
Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject:
mrhodes40 wrote:
I asked because EBV lives in b cells forever once it has been contacted. Since a considerable amount of MS research seems to keep looking at that, I wondered if the EBV is gone as well and thought it might ossibly be another reason for effective therapy
My bias is that MS is probably not autoimmune--No don't argue with me, I realize some of us...Lyon....have good research to back up the other side but I still remain in the side of Behan and Chaudhuri
But taht doesn't mean something like this might not be very effective but for reasons other than we think.
I like it cause it seems to work in the small studies I saw (if you know more post on the research thread I started please) , it is not something with long term impact on your body, and I am all out of wait! EDSS 6, thank you very much, I have to do something and this seems pretty safe to me personally
marie
whats stopping you? have you sent in your records to JH?
Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 368 Location: Washington USA
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject:
I am only just learning about this treatment! I am likely to go for it, it does not frighten me at all. I was much more worried about heart damage from novantrone or ongoing immunosppression from things like tysabri than I am about this approach.
Yes an EDSS 2 would be better we'd have to go back in time for that. My neuro (who just went to Stanford, so left my area) who was the director of a large Seattle MS clinic and who was running a tovaxin trial told me that the minority of patients have MRTC and that it is not going to be as useful as hoped because of that. He did not offer to let me in the trial, I am too "well controlled" on Copaxone and too far down the path. My "well controlled" is about my lovely MRIs...nary an inflammation insight, no brain atrophy at all, no new lesions. I just have this troubling little problem of deteriorating motor funciton. I did try to go off Cop and had an old fashioned exacerbation.
Those of you diagnosed in these days are fortunate, you have options I just did not.
marie
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