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Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Personality aspects in multiple sclerosis
Personality aspects in multiple sclerosis.
1: Ital J Neurol Sci. 1985 Dec;6(4):415-23.
To test the claim that peculiar personality bias is detectable in multiple sclerosis (MS) we used the Szondi test to investigate the psychodynamic aspects of 110 MS patients in comparison with 200 healthy subjects. MS patients appeared to have a greater need for love in a passive form than normal people, rigid defense mechanisms, difficulty in resolving their inner conflicts either by sublimation or by internalization of satisfactory new emotional experiences, feelings of autoaggressiveness, and many symptoms of depression. Some of these aspects correlate with the severity of the disease, others seem to date back to early childhood as peculiar personality patterns. An investigation of childhood events in 110 controls confirmed that MS patients had had many more unhappy experiences in childhood than might commonly be expected. Further, the oft-reported psychiatric troubles preceding MS clinical onset suggest that at least in some MS patients there are specific gaps in personality structure dating back to early phases of their development.
Many of the characteristics found in the patients in this study fit me and I don't feel stigmatized by it, rather I see it as an opportunity to learn about myself and to grow. Just a thought: what if the immature myelin in ms-patients is related to these "specific gaps in personality structure"?
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 590 Location: Northamptonshire, England.
Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:42 am Post subject:
Hi Thomas,
I'm just catching up on TIMS having been preoccupied over the last few weeks with sinusitis, a stinking cold and some family problems, so I've just read your post. I too recognise myself in those psychological descriptions: I've always hated myself; never actually felt happy or satisfied, even after a " satisfactory emotional experience", (actually, never had one of those), and my childhood was unrelentingly negative.
Personality and stress response have cropped up once or twice before with regard to MS, though I can't remember early childhood being brought into the equation. Interesting. _________________ Dom
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 590 Location: Northamptonshire, England.
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:28 am Post subject:
Hi Terry,
In my extensive studies of supervillains and their evil henchmen it seems it is possible to love yourself and hate the entire rest of humanity, so I presume the opposite must be equally possible!
BTW, still listening to the music? _________________ Dom
Yes, Dom. I still treasure your creations. (Turned on Pilatus as I type here.)
I'm having a bit of trouble with this forum lately. It has been strength to me since I joined. Lately it seems a bit of a downer.
Failed meds I guess go with the territory.
Drugs, drinking, sports, general risk-taking behavior....some (not all) of those things fit my youth, but as I said, I was a teen in the 70's. If those things predisposed me to MS, then my entire graduating high school class should be on here. They are not.
Stress? I raised 4 kids alone. Started a stress-filled business in 2000. Had and still have my share of that. But as I look around at the people I know, I cannot see that I am alone in that, either. We do live in a stress filled age. Still, some of us have MS, most don't.
I thought of you many times yesterday. Your honesty, kindness, intelligence, and creativity impact my life.
I still, however, don't think we have any choice in who we are. We just are.
To say that who we are causes our MS makes no sense to me. I have friends who drink too much, self-medicate, are medicated by doctors. I have friends who are perfectionists. I have friends who are none of the above. Some are the perfect pictures of health and stability. None of them have MS, but if they don't die of a tragic accident, they ALL will get sick. They all will die of something.
I don't want the stigma of being "unstable". Most people I know are, or maybe none of us are. We live, love, do our best, fall short, pick up and try again. This is everyone I know. This is life.
I'm late for work. I must get off my bitchy overthinking ass and get to work and deal with all the other bitchy ovethinking people I deal with every day.
Love and hugs coming from Cincinnati, Dom. I think we pick up the "essence" of each other here, and I think you are exceptional.
Terry
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 662 Location: southern California
Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:27 am Post subject:
Thanks, Terry...
Beautifully said. I "ditto" every word. It angered me to see a newbie (gains) come on just to write about how folks with MS in a sense "participated " in their disease, just by nature of who they are. Everyone here is different in temperament, abilities and level of disease activity. My husband is kind, loving, smart and funny, and also like Dom, a musician. But he was fortunate to have a good childhood, and loving, supportive parents. And he loves himself, because he knows he was created by Love. (I'm the hypercritical, perfectionist b#tch in our family, and I'm healthy as a horse.) Please keep posting, Terry....I enjoy your honesty.
I can only echo Terry, Dom...you have helped me thru many dark days. Your humor and grace in the face of such tremendous challenges humbles me.
your fan,
AC _________________ Husband diagnosed RRMS March 2007
pursuing endothelial healing
Copaxone, Swank, supplements, laughter
Thanks, Terry...
Beautifully said. I "ditto" every word. It angered me to see a newbie (gains) come on just to write about how folks with MS in a sense "participated " in their disease, just by nature of who they are. Everyone here is different in temperament, abilities and level of disease activity. My husband is kind, loving, smart and funny, and also like Dom, a musician. But he was fortunate to have a good childhood, and loving, supportive parents. And he loves himself, because he knows he was created by Love. (I'm the hypercritical, perfectionist b#tch in our family, and I'm healthy as a horse.) Please keep posting, Terry....I enjoy your honesty.
I can only echo Terry, Dom...you have helped me thru many dark days. Your humor and grace in the face of such tremendous challenges humbles me.
your fan,
AC
I agree with everything you have written. One thing that will set me on a warpath is when dim witted physicians tell patients that their symptoms are due to stress or anxiety.
If this were the case, it would not be terribly expensive, all things considered, to go to Tibet and mingle and chant with the Buddahs so we could get all peaceful and "cured". I am sure Bromley would foot the bill for all of us who didn't have the money to travel.
Balderdash (nice phrase for "Stick it where the sun don't shine") to all who try to tell us we cause our own problems. I have been run ragged with a job, kids, a husband and MS and I have been calm for many years and neither lifestyle made me better or worse with MS symptoms or declining health.
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 590 Location: Northamptonshire, England.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:
I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding when talking about this subject which is why people get annoyed when they hear it: "stress" can be categorised as almost any emotional response to a stimulus, (it doesn't even have to be particularly negative), which causes, as all emotions do, a physiological and biochemical change in the body.
It is what our bodies then do with these hormones and chemicals, especially low level chronic exposure and particularly during crucial phases of development, that is something I find to be an interesting avenue to explore. It is no more under our control, (and therefore nobody's fault), than say an allergic response to peanuts, and will be different in each individual so that similar circumstances do not produce the same response in everybody
I often wonder what was going on, (in a biochemical sense), while I was in the womb: my dad was terminally ill at that time, so I presume mum's body would have been flooded with hormones like cortisol.
I'm not sure I've been able to explain myself properly, but I don't think anybody is saying that "who you are" has caused MS, more that your emotional makeup is likely to be a reflection of your own personal biochemistry, and could therefore hint at what has happened at a very, very deep level.
Thank you so much for your kind words. I'm sending out hugs too, though I'm afraid as hugs go they're a bit substandard – one armed, feeble, fist partly clenched – but no less heartfelt for that!
PS whether we go to Tibet or not, I think we'd all feel much better if Bromley just sent us money anyway… _________________ Dom
Joined: Mar 26, 2005 Posts: 590 Location: Northamptonshire, England.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:42 am Post subject:
Bags I get the services of Sherpa Lyon for the climb!
All this talk about personality and brain structure has got me thinking: supposing regenerative medicine comes up trumps and you were offered the chance of growing a whole bundle of new nerve cells to repair the damage, but that it was highly likely that some of this new brain tissue would significantly alter your personality… would you do it?
I know that even a small amount of brain damage can cause dramatic behavioural change, so perhaps the reverse is true. We can only hope that if repair becomes possible it will be guided by our own DNA so that it puts back what should be there, and no more, _________________ Dom
Bags I get the services of Sherpa Lyon for the climb!
All this talk about personality and brain structure has got me thinking: supposing regenerative medicine comes up trumps and you were offered the chance of growing a whole bundle of new nerve cells to repair the damage, but that it was highly likely that some of this new brain tissue would significantly alter your personality… would you do it?
I know that even a small amount of brain damage can cause dramatic behavioural change, so perhaps the reverse is true. We can only hope that if repair becomes possible it will be guided by our own DNA so that it puts back what should be there, and no more,
I would rather deal with a new personality than my current MS issues. If that is the price to pay for a permanent "fix" come and sign me up for it.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject:
TwistedHelix wrote:
Bags I get the services of Sherpa Lyon for the climb!
"Sherpa" Lyon realizes full well today that he is not much more than a feeble old man, not fit to make dog food out of!
At work today I helped a couple of young guys plant shrubs and then wood chip those areas and now I ache in places I long ago forgot I had.
Stupid of me to over exert myself because next Wednesday I'm scheduled to have an operation to remove bladder stones and I've been told not to take aspirin, Advil or Tylenol for 7 days before the operation, so all those places are just going to have to hurt for a few days!
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
I don't think anybody is saying that "who you are" has caused MS
I don't know, Dom. That is the message I picked up from the other personality/MS thead. A "quit stressing and heal" message.
Quote:
All this talk about personality and brain structure has got me thinking: supposing regenerative medicine comes up trumps and you were offered the chance of growing a whole bundle of new nerve cells to repair the damage, but that it was highly likely that some of this new brain tissue would significantly alter your personality… would you do it?
I know that even a small amount of brain damage can cause dramatic behavioural change, so perhaps the reverse is true. We can only hope that if repair becomes possible it will be guided by our own DNA so that it puts back what should be there, and no more,
Interesting question, Dom. I'd sure like to have my patience and ability to concentrate back.
If my brain has deteriorated enough to change my personality a bit (I have a feeling it has) then yes, of course I'd like to be whole again.
Bob, a warm bath and a good night's sleep will do wonders. Good for you for getting out there with the young'uns. And good luck with your surgery. I hope it is easy.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject:
Terry wrote:
And good luck with your surgery. I hope it is easy.
Thanks Terry. I've never been in a hospital and I've never had a surgery so I hope it's easy too!
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
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