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Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: Findings at FCSC Vancouver/Canada
Out of 45 patients scanned to date:
6 patients have significant narrowing of the Internal Jugulars on MRV.
15 patients have other venous abnormalities that may or may not be pathologically significant.
So we are finding abnormalities.
Dr Mark Godley
Medical Director
urgentcarecentre.com
Assumedly they didn't follow Dr. Zamboni's Protocol pretty much as he has said "First look at 100 normals to see the difference." _________________ "There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." Socrates
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 3137 Location: southern California
Posted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject:
To my knowledge, they are not using transcranial doppler. Dr. Zamboni's testing is pretty rigorous...he is more concerned with flow that abnormalities. That said, they are finding abnormalities- They are an imaging facility, let's see what vascular doctors tell these patients. Dr. Godley's specialty is anaesthesiology.
It's honest and realistic. The ultrasounds are evaluated by a Radiologist,
not just a Sonographer. The Centre is hosting medical personnel
from Europe very soon and that should assure clients of the quality.
txs
I've heard that the eco-color-doppler + MRV are not showing the same results, but results giving together a complementary picture. At least this is what Simka told me.
So on the color-doppler you can detect a flow-problem (direction/speed or absence of flow) + the diameter size of the jugular. So the artery in one direction flow is red (the red circle you see) and the jugular other direction flow should be fully blue if OK (blue circle next to it, which should also not be smaller than on the other side if OK). I saw it at my doppler-exam. I did not have a fully blue left internal jugular, but only like tickling blue spots and at one point no blood flow at all (= there was no color).
While via MRV you see other things (sorry am not a medical expert to know what precisely and have not done any MRV yet, so havn't seen pics). But I guess you see an occlusion/narrowing of the vein as in Zamboni's research study pictures? Anyone knows?
Steffi _________________ >>Dr F. I've broken my leg! Will you set it for me please? - Oh, you have MS, why would you fix something that has nothing to do with the disease?<< (Jeanine Baker, April 11 2010 after watching W5)
A Consensus Conference on Venous Malformations - headed by Prof. Byung B Lee from Georgetown - and experts from 47 countries- studied the evidence and unanimously voted in favour of officially including the stenosing lesions found in CCSVI in the new Consensus document and Guidelines. Now published-
This paper can be brought/linked to interventional radiologists and vascular surgeons. CCSVI lesions are classified as a truncular venous malformations - which means that vascular doctors have now classified this disease, CCSVI, as congenital- and preceding MS lesions.
Vascular doctors have agreed. CCSVI comes first.
Dr. Zamboni has been speaking to medical panels around the world. Yesterday was a "4 hour machine gunning of questions" by the Italian, Canadian and US MS Societies in Milan- Dr. Zamboni said he was able to answer all the questions with scientific evidence, and was quite pleased with the meeting's outcome. He'll be in North American soon.
so basically this means if you have MS you have CCSVI. so i think they need to have some more training on the protocol plus are they using the transcranial doppler and MRV? _________________ STAY REAL MY FRIENDS
A Consensus Conference on Venous Malformations - headed by Prof. Byung B Lee from Georgetown - and experts from 47 countries- studied the evidence and unanimously voted in favour of officially including the stenosing lesions found in CCSVI in the new Consensus document and Guidelines. Now published-
This paper can be brought/linked to interventional radiologists and vascular surgeons. CCSVI lesions are classified as a truncular venous malformations - which means that vascular doctors have now classified this disease, CCSVI, as congenital- and preceding MS lesions.
Vascular doctors have agreed. CCSVI comes first.
Dr. Zamboni has been speaking to medical panels around the world. Yesterday was a "4 hour machine gunning of questions" by the Italian, Canadian and US MS Societies in Milan- Dr. Zamboni said he was able to answer all the questions with scientific evidence, and was quite pleased with the meeting's outcome. He'll be in North American soon.
so basically this means if you have MS you have CCSVI. so i think they need to have some more training on the protocol plus are they using the transcranial doppler and MRV?
This is great news! I tried the links (the PubMed does not show the abstract or text only the title, the other asks payment to get the doc). Is it maybe still in the process of publication?
Says: MID: 20087280 [PubMed - in process]
Anyone has a link to the full doc or abstract?
Steffi _________________ >>Dr F. I've broken my leg! Will you set it for me please? - Oh, you have MS, why would you fix something that has nothing to do with the disease?<< (Jeanine Baker, April 11 2010 after watching W5)
It's honest and realistic. The ultrasounds are evaluated by a Radiologist,
not just a Sonographer. The Centre is hosting medical personnel
from Europe very soon and that should assure clients of the quality.
txs
But I think Cheer's point is they do not have the trans-cranial doppler needed to do the complete test. Unfortunately it sounds like this clinic will not be producing accurate results unless they follow the complete protocol. Hopefully the Europeans (who are they?) will set them straight.
The Buffalo study results will also be interesting in that I believe they are going to compare the results of doppler (full Zamboni protocol) vs. MRV results in both MS patients and controls. Hopefully this will produce accurate data whether doppler or mrv is a better tool or are they both accurate used correctly, and does ccsvi appear in all/most MS patients vs. controls.
Last edited by jay123 on Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total
The Buffalo study results will also be interesting in that I believe they are going to compare the results of doppler (full Zamboni protocol) vs. MRV results in both MS patients and controls. Hopefully this will produce accurate data whether doppler or mrv is a better tool or are they both accurate used correctly, and does ccsvi appear in all/most MS patients vs. controls.
Zamboni is himself also now starting such a study.
I am on a waiting list via Bologna hospital to participate! I'm eagerly waiting that they will finally call me!
"Clinical Governance Emilia-Romagna
The Emilia-Romagna Region has approved a Clinical Governance Project which is co-financed by the Hilarescere Foundation. The 180,000 Euro grant will be used to provide evidence on the diagnostic accuracy of cerebro-venous echo-colour-doppler vs. advanced magnetic resonance in the diagnosis of CCSVI, either alone or in association with Multiple Sclerosis. The Project will be conducted in the years 2010-2011 and will involve the Centre for Vascular Diseases of the University of Ferrara, the il Be.Ne Centre and the Neuroradiology Unit of the Bellaria Hospital in Bologna."
From: http://www.fondazionehilarescere.org/eng/progetti.html _________________ >>Dr F. I've broken my leg! Will you set it for me please? - Oh, you have MS, why would you fix something that has nothing to do with the disease?<< (Jeanine Baker, April 11 2010 after watching W5)
Joined: Nov 29, 2009 Posts: 223 Location: Victoria, BC Canada
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:09 am Post subject:
jay123 wrote:
But I think Cheer's point is they do not have the trans-cranial doppler needed to do the complete test. Unfortunately it sounds like this study will not be producing accurate results unless they follow the complete protocol. Hopefully the Europeans (who are they?) will set them straight.
jay123, the False Creek Centre is a private clinic in Vancouver. It is not performing a study of CCSVI at all. It is offering both Doppler (but not echo Doppler) and MRV scans for CCSVI for a fee.
I think the study you mean is the one being held at UBC, which is the main university in Vancouver. They have not done any scans yet. They will be doing scans for both CCSVI and iron deposits once they get going. _________________ Admin for UBC CCSVI Support and Information Facebook group: CCSVI at UBC (link)
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