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Experience Project.
Lars
If I can put together a get-together next spring here in Naples would you come? I was thinking about scheduling it around spring break. We are leaving for about 3 weeks next week and I am planning on working on it when I get back. I have had several people tell me they would vacation here then. You would get an idea how you feel here once again.
Lori
Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 273 Location: Durango, Co
Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject:
Loriyas,
What a kind offer. I suppose like everything else my ability to plan that far ahead has suffered. My father lives in Pompano and has been trying endlessly to get us down there. The only problem with that (no patriarchal disrespect intended) is that my father is there. My family has a great relationship as long as we are not physically subjected to one another.
Let's keep in touch and see where life goes.
Be Well,
Lars
Lars,
I have often wondered if I would have been diagnosed with MS if I would have stayed in Texas and not have moved to Colorado for four years. I don't remember having any symptoms until about a year after moving up there.
Since moving back to Texas, I have not had any problems, which I am surprised at. I was worried about the heat, but it hasn't seemed to bother me at all.
Joined: Jun 02, 2008 Posts: 73 Location: Mississippi
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject:
I have lived in Mississippi for 40 years, moved back here at the age of 9 when my Dad retired from the military. (born in VA, lived in AK and RI up north)
I had Mono in feb 2000 and have not been the same since. I got my DX of RRMS in april of 08 after being on the fence for 5 years.
I have the best Neuro in the US. I have to drive 2 hours to Cullman, Al but it is well worth it.
I heat is sometimes to much to bear but you learn to live with it and stay in when it is unbearable.
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 663 Location: southern California
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject:
Interesting, Rita.
I've been to Sardinia, it's a beautiful island, great beaches and a gorgeous mediterranean climate. Lots of epidemiology studies have been done on Sardinians, because they are a genetically stable society. And their cancer and MS rates are much higher than the rest of Italy.
Either genetic predisposition or environmental to blame for MS in Sardinia- it sure ain't the sunshine or diet (lots of fish, olive oil, antioxidants)
Sardinia has an unusually large mining industry....maybe heavy metal toxicity?
AC _________________ Husband diagnosed RRMS March 2007
pursuing endothelial healing
Copaxone, Swank, supplements, laughter
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject:
Of course with my conviction that the increased incidence of MS stems from the "loss of evolutionary normal conditions" it seems pretty suspicious to me that Sardinia went from low MS incidence/high malaria incidence after a massive WHO coordinated effort eliminated the mosquitos which harbored the malaria parasites to a situation of low malaria/high MS.
Conclusive evidence? No.
Suspicious situation? Along with the hundreds of other situations which seem to link the loss of parasites to the increase of MS incidence I would have to say that it is not only very suspicious but very logical that the parasites and other "evolutionary normal" conditions humans evolved with for millions of years kept humans from experiencing what we now call the autoimmune diseases.
Bob
S. Sotgiu et al. / Journal of Neuroimmunology 185 (2007) 201–207 wrote:
In 1951, the WHO-coordinated Sardinian campaign eradicated
malaria from the island (Brown, 1998). Perhaps not
coincidentally, and certainly not fully justified by an improved
diagnostic accuracy, a 3-fold increase of MS incidence has been
recorded in Sardinia starting from 1960 (Rosati et al., 1986;
Pugliatti et al., 2005). This “MS epidemics” represents a rare
event and still an unsolved enigma. However, because 50 years
is too short a span for a substantial Sardinians' genetic change,
an environmental modification becomes a likely determinant
(Sotgiu et al., 2003; Pugliatti et al., 2006).
_________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: Nov 24, 2007 Posts: 69 Location: South Germany
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:39 am Post subject:
Whatever it proves, less malaria is not the only possibility. What did WHO use to kill the mosquitos? Pesticide?
And what else happened on Sardinia around this time? Maybe they introduced sewage treatment plants, maybe got their first indoor plumbing, maybe filtered tap water, maybe children attending school regularly and thus sharing their germs? New and different foodstuffs introduced? Fertilisers and weedkiller? I don't know, must be recorded somewhere.
And was Sardinia occupied during the war, was there an influx of German gene material? Were the adult men in the army and where did they serve? _________________ Bibo ergo sum
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:33 am Post subject:
RedSonja wrote:
Whatever it proves, less malaria is not the only possibility.l What did WHO use to kill the mosquitos? Pesticide?
And what else happened on Sardinia around this time? Maybe they introduced sewage treatment plants, maybe got their first indoor plumbing, maybe filtered tap water, maybe children attending school regularly and thus sharing their germs? New and different foodstuffs introduced? Fertilisers and weedkiller? I don't know, must be recorded somewhere.
You're absolutely right. My point is that nothing other than the loss of evolutionary normal conditions seems to be a consistent factor in these types of situations.....which admittedly doesn't constitute conclusive evidence.
RedSonja wrote:
And was Sardinia occupied during the war, was there an influx of German gene material? Were the adult men in the army and where did they serve?
That aspect is not a factor, it's pretty much universally agreed that the time period is too short for genetics to have been a factor, other than the genetics the writers of the article were speculating on which involved that maybe the centuries of malaria existance genetically changed the systems of the people in Sardinia in a way that when malaria was eliminated that factor exposed an pre-existing genetic "problem".
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 273 Location: Durango, Co
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:
Bob,
To follow Red Sonja line of thinking, it is easy to consider a direct human connection if the dates, times and MS cases are indeed accurate. There always seems to be conspiracy theory for everything but in this case maybe there is some sense to be made of it. This seems to be a case of overnight MS and should be a hotbed of research. Biological research? Gene research? Alien landing site? (Bob, I know you can sometimes take things to literally but that is a joke). Although an island seems a perfect place to isolate a test on it's population. Just thinking.
Lars
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject:
Lars wrote:
Bob,
To follow Red Sonja line of thinking, it is easy to consider a direct human connection if the dates, times and MS cases are indeed accurate.
Hi Lars,
I think anyone could agree, but the problem with this type of situation (Faroes/Sardinia/West Indies migration, the Sammi's...yada yada yada) is that there has never been any identifiable human caused change which convincingly aligns with the increase in MS incidence.
In other words, no matter how convincing something has seemed through the years (vitamin D/EBV/infection in general) there invariably has been....not only the obvious lack of conclusive evidence supporting it but damning evidence to doubt it. At least in my case, in 7 or 8 years of obsession I have yet to find damning evidence to doubt that the loss of evolutionary normal conditions led to the increase incidence of MS/autoimmune/inflammatory diseases.
Lars wrote:
Gene research? Alien landing site? (Bob, I know you can sometimes take things to literally but that is a joke).
It's a shame that you disavowed that Lars because I'm with gwa, aliens seems pretty plausible!
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: Mar 22, 2007 Posts: 273 Location: Durango, Co
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:
If aliens work for ya, I say go with it. I tend to lean more towards corrupt humans. The reason there is no definable link is that the Government/s don't want there to be one. It is their specialty you know. I wish I could somehow link Bush to all this, he's an easy target.
Lars
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3371 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject:
Lars wrote:
I wish I could somehow link Bush to all this, he's an easy target.
You're talking to another Bush.......fan and our saying he is responsible is good enough!
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
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and our saying he is responsible is good enough!