EP is a community where members connect through shared life experiences-- like MS--and so much more. You are not defined by any one thing, so be your true self and find others just like you at
Experience Project.
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 506 Location: southern California
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: Worms for Bob!
Just because Bromley's been teasing you, Bob...and I wanted to show folks that you and Dr. Fleming are on to something.
University of Wisconsin study is still recruiting!
HINT MS STUDY
For more information:
Andrea Maser
UW School of Medicine & Public Health
Phone (608) 265-6544
Pager (608) 265-7000 x5553
"It is very exciting!" exclaims Dr. John Fleming, "It's the first time in the world that it's been tried in a systematic way with Multiple Sclerosis patients. So in Wisconsin, we will be ground zero."
Dr. Fleming is the lead researcher on a new study to determine whether drinking a worm potion can reduce the symptoms of MS.
"It's a clear drink, kind of like Gatorade," Fleming explains, "There are 2500 eggs in here that the patient will drink every two weeks."
The helminth or round worm eggs are harvested from pigs in Germany and purified in a sterile lab.
"This is processed extensively under all of the guidance of all the regulatory authorities so it is essentially sterile fluid except for these microscopic eggs."
The eggs hatch in the patient's intestines. They're very small, about the size of an eyelash, and in about a week they are killed by the immune system.
"The immune system at that point has a choice, it's got to go one way or the other," says Fleming, "What has been found with this particular probiotic is that it redirects the immune system from a kind of inflammatory response which we see in MS, technically a Th1 response, to an anti-inflammatory response with T regulatory cells, so it's an exact immune opposite."
There's even a WORM VIDEO on the link, for you Bob.
Enjoy!
AC _________________ Husband diagnosed RRMS March 2007
20 lesions brain/spine
Copaxone, Swank, supplements, laughter
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 506 Location: southern California
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:38 am Post subject:
I know, carolew I used to think it was pretty horrible....
but the worms are in a microscopic egg stage, and as the good doc explains, it's just like taking a probiotic or eating yogurt, except these specific organisms have shown a 95% reduction in new lesion development and attacks in MSers. That's better rates than any of the nasty injectables we have today.
If Jeff and I lived closer to Wisconsin, I'd be signing him up for the study.
Just want to encourage Wisconsin MSers to look into this study, and thank Bob for drawing our attention to the hygiene hypothesis.
AC _________________ Husband diagnosed RRMS March 2007
20 lesions brain/spine
Copaxone, Swank, supplements, laughter
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3151 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject:
I've still never met John in person so the video was neat to see. Thanks AC!
What's especially interesting is that this is one of the few (or the ONLY) clinical trials which is based on the elimination or opposite of what is thought to have led to the increased incidence of MS in the developed populations.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
http://www.msu.edu/~lyonro/recentharnett.pdf I think Bill Harnett's been working on this as long as anyone and he has something he calls ES-62 which is a factor isolated from the helminths and he published his first paper on ES-62 in 1989.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3151 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject:
Kasuku wrote:
Is it true for helminths only or other parasites such as protozoa have the same effects?
Probably any parasite that has an internal relationship with the human (reacts with the immune system), but there is LOTS which remains to be studied and proven.
The reason you hear so much about helminths and the immune system and the reason that researchers are concentrating on the helminth relationship with the immune system is due to the fact that the helminths are the largest of the human parasites and have the most obvious and most easily documented impact on the human immune system.
I think it's important to keep in mind that the theory already exists that immune dysfunction started due to the loss of the parasites humans had evolved with. The idea of "treating" people with parasites for autoimmune diseases isn't so much to prove parasites are the cure as to show that the loss of that evolved relationship might have caused those immune dysfunctions which materialized at the same times and places in which our parasites were dissapearing.
Everyone knows that the purpose of the immune system is to eliminate foreign organisms like parasites, yet the human whipworm (T trichiura) lives for 20 years in the human and dies of old age, despite the purpose of the immune system....How? Why?
Electricity, running water and flush toilets were responsible for the elimination of the majority of helminths which we had evolved with. In hindsight it's easy enough to notice that the places and times that MS incidence increased are the same places and times that electricity, running water and flush toilets arrived.
With that in mind, take another look at the original "MS geographic gradient" and consider that JUST MAYBE the industrial revolution/economy/development were the defining factors, despite it having "seemed" that genetics defined the differences in MS incidence.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3151 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject:
I hope to see favorable results from Dr Fleming's trial but it's important to keep in mind that this "hygiene hypothesis/loss of evolutionary normal conditions" thing is based on the "successful parasites" which humanity had evolved with for millions of years and had become masters of our immune system to the point that our immune system doesn't kill them, they die of old age. Nearly 20 years for some types.
The clinical trial is using swine whipworm (T suis) which only survives for a week or two in the human before our immune system locates and kills it. Favorable results have been shown using T suis for other diseases, but obviously a parasite that is found and killed by our immune system in a week isn't a master of our immune system and won't provide the best possible results.
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
Joined: May 04, 2006 Posts: 3151 Location: Mid-Michigan
Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject:
I probably should have mentioned earlier that I heard from Dr Fleming on August 8th and he said that they were going to be screening MS patients for the HINT (helminth) trial that week, with the intention of treating 5 patients with T suis ova for three months and measure brain MRI changes (= part 1, safety and preliminary immunoassays). Then in 2009 the intention is to check MRI changes in 15 patients during 10 months of T suis ova treatment (= part 2, preliminary efficacy).
I haven't been in contact with John since to find out whether or not they've been able to find 5 interested people who meet the trial entrance criteria.
Watching the progress of this one is going to be particularly interesting because positive results would seem to show, not only that introducing helminth parasites to the systems of people with MS is beneficial, but would add creedance to the idea that the drastic increase in MS incidence in the developed countries might be owed to the loss of "evolutionary normal" conditions experienced during the process of becoming "developed".
Bob _________________ Wife diagnosed with MS in Feb. 2006 and is a participant in the Tovaxin IIb clinical trial.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
I wish I lived in Wisconsin and could join that trial! Really. Worms are yuk but the potential results on MS sounds very promising.